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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 29, 2018 16:17:39 GMT
In general, Greeks don’t trust or respect the “State” (government) whatever it is, but in private business they typically operate with honor. Immigrant Greeks are also well known for being hard workers and respecting the local laws.
So, as long as the government is perceived as “corrupt” or “unfair,” and "cheating" is not penalized, Greeks will adapt to survive.
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Post by IainS on Aug 30, 2018 18:20:24 GMT
Are Greeks corrupted (as a mentality/society)? Yes and this is one of the reasons that I fled Greece. I simply could not put up with the idea that the way we have built our society, rewards outrageously corrupt bureaucrats in the public service, nobody finds it strange as long as the impunity revives through the promise that the favouritism towards public sector non-jobs won’t touched at the expense of taxpayers and the competitiveness of the country. It is not strange because all families have a member that receives something from the public purse that gradually dwindles, because the GDP falls due to the bureaucracy, high taxes and unfriendliness to businesses. Nevertheless, the voters on average are shortsighted and the situation keeps on repeating itself. It is a vicious circle basically. A system formerly fixed in the short term by devaluing the drachma.
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Post by peterboat on Aug 30, 2018 22:09:36 GMT
Are Greeks corrupted (as a mentality/society)? Yes and this is one of the reasons that I fled Greece. I simply could not put up with the idea that the way we have built our society, rewards outrageously corrupt bureaucrats in the public service, nobody finds it strange as long as the impunity revives through the promise that the favouritism towards public sector non-jobs won’t touched at the expense of taxpayers and the competitiveness of the country. It is not strange because all families have a member that receives something from the public purse that gradually dwindles, because the GDP falls due to the bureaucracy, high taxes and unfriendliness to businesses. Nevertheless, the voters on average are shortsighted and the situation keeps on repeating itself. It is a vicious circle basically. A system formerly fixed in the short term by devaluing the drachma. Next 3 months Italy will revert back to to the Lira and then devalue it to short its problems! It will make the greek crisis look like a small ripple in a big pond
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Post by lollygagger on Aug 31, 2018 14:22:31 GMT
Greece is a very sad case. They were poor but happy, now they're poor, stacked with debt and presumably pissed off.
I spent a couple of months there in 1981 and though few had luxury goods due to massive import duty, day to day life was really cheap so being poor didn't really matter, it was a good place to be poor. Somebody sold their souls, took the cash and did a runner.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 31, 2018 14:25:53 GMT
Rubbish - the Greeks are rolling in (other peoples') money.
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Post by lollygagger on Aug 31, 2018 17:22:44 GMT
Rubbish - the Greeks are rolling in (other peoples') money. A lot of money has gone through the system with not a lot to show for it, a few people have got rich and a very few are no doubt billionaires. Their company tax rates used to be quite high, but there was a quite amazing get out clause to the effect that if you had two companies, you could get away with paying tax on one of them. No prizes for guessing how that one went. It was a stupid idea to lend them even a quid, EU power mad empire building.I expect we van agree on that. What I object to is lumping them together and blaming the "Greeks" when they've been set up and robbed by their own top tier in colusion with the EU. The peasants are still peasants but everything costs more and you can bet they're being blamed for having the nerve to buy a new goat on a loan.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 31, 2018 17:42:24 GMT
Yes, I agree with that. As I have no doubt said before, the only answer is for a country to have a benevolent dictator who ensures that wealth is fairly distributed. I don't say 'evenly' as there are those people who deserve little or nothing. You have to keep the rich rolling in money to an extent, otherwise they'll think "why bother?" and not run businesses, or invent new things, or employ people. Hard, honest work and education is the key to having a country running well. Democracy will never work, it's just a scam for corrupt politicians to run and run over and over again.
Mountainous countries such as Greece have it hard to start with, all those ups & downs make transport costly in fuel, labour and time.
Perhaps the answer is for the Greeks to sort their own problems out. The Greeks I've met and worked with have seemed OK to me, and when I've read travellers' stories of their trips to Greece the Greeks are shown in a good light. It looks to me like Germany is getting the noose around every poor country's neck by offering them loans, and soon Germany will be pulling all the strings. As they do in Britain, running almost all the railways. I wonder who runs the trains in Greece... let me guess... Deutsche Bahn?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Oct 21, 2018 10:13:56 GMT
Nice touch of respect shown by the pro-Remain protesters in London yesterday...
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 21, 2018 12:37:20 GMT
"By twisting words and reality Khan and his ilk simply reveal themselves to be devious corrupt lying sacks of shit. If they dont stop this nonsense it may be time to seriously look at the possibility of starting legal processes to have them prosecuted for conspiracy to subvert our democracy."
Source: Women's Weekly.
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 21, 2018 14:12:40 GMT
I'll chuck this in, too:
"Opening with an excellent article written by Simon Heffer (Telegraph) in May 2016
Chancellor Merkel has ensured her country prospers while others suffer. The arsenal of fear must almost be nearly exhausted. Those daring to vote to leave the EU will inflict on Britain collapsing house prices (according to George Osborne and Christine Lagarde of the IMF, who should worry about the EU’s unemployment-soaked economies); a “technical” recession (Mark Carney, a “technical” Irish-Canadian with a long record of error, who for this disgraceful political interference should be kicked back to Ottawa); and, of course, the Third World War (Mr Cameron). It’s clearly a Corporal Jones moment for the Remainers, though any cries of “don’t panic” come far too late: they are manifestly drowning in it.
“What must we fear if we stay? Not merely relentless uncontrolled immigration (and the lies told about it), putting such burdens on our schools, hospitals and infrastructure that UK citizens suffer, but the inevitability of our nation’s destiny being increasingly subject to the wishes of foreigners whom we don’t elect. I am not talking about the amorphous idea of “Brussels”: I’m talking about Germany.
Five years ago I wrote a piece referring to the control Angela Merkel exerted over Europe as “the Fourth Reich”. I was accused of a horrible breach of taste. However, when one looks at German power today one realises that she had hardly even started. The key to German success is this: it participates in a weak currency (whose value would collapse without it) enabling its exports to sell far more cheaply than had it retained the Deutschmark. Therefore, it continues to grow in economic strength relative to its partners (including us) but especially those in the Eurozone, notably France and Italy, who would benefit greatly from restoring the Franc and the Lira.
Any net exporter in the EU (which we are most certainly not) also benefits hugely from the vast and incomprehensible welter of EU regulations on products and employment law, which keep external competitors at arm’s length and pile costs on them if they wish access to the single market.
Germany is so rich, and getting richer at the expense not least of its partners that it can afford to pretend globalisation isn’t happening. We are not so fortunate, and leaving the EU to avoid all these regulations and take proper advantage of the wider world is not the least reason why we must vote to get out.
Dr Savvas Savouri (chief economist at the leading investment business Toscafund) points out that if we stay in the EU there will be huge costs for us from all this chaos, despite being out of the Eurozone. “Having renewed our vows to remain in the EU ‘through sickness and in health’ we will be required to contribute to funding the fiscal efforts being applied to our ever more sickly EU partners,” he writes. The costs will be huge, and once we have committed ourselves to remain we will be forced to join the communal effort to save ailing partners.
He also argues that such a wave of economic hardship will propel more impoverished Europeans across open borders into the UK: and don’t forget what Iain Duncan Smith disclosed last week, that Mr Cameron deleted a passage about controlling immigration from a speech he made because he was told it would upset the Germans. That is the reality of our relationship with the EU: if we choose to stay in, the Germans will ensure that we become ever more obedient to their policies – so stand by for their next project, Turkey’s admission to the EU, and all that would entail.
It was not just deeply offensive, but ironic, that Mr Cameron should last week have evoked the idea of another world war in his latest intelligence-insulting act of hysteria aimed at making us vote to stay in the EU. It is not just that our fathers and grandfathers fought in two world wars to allow Britain the right to continue to rule itself, rather than to be ruled by Germans: Mr Cameron plainly won’t admit that German domination of the EU means it has conquered without war, and signing up to the EU is signing up to the Fourth Reich.
Ask the Greeks if you think I exaggerate: Germany runs Europe without firing a shot. It forces far weaker partners to stay in a currency zone that is crippling them, and uses its economic muscle to dictate immigration and other key policies. And if you believe the Germans won’t take a UK vote to stay in as a signal to continue and intensify their control over the EU, and to make us help pay for its baleful effects, then you aren’t paying attention.
It’s not war we should fear, but what the Germans do in peace.
If this is not already enough I would like to add the following for your kind consideration:
Angela Merkel (again), for being a deranged lunatic strutting round in her frumpy outfits, continuing to spout utter fucking nonsense like some fucking guru and persevering with her ridiculous immigration policy for well over two years since the above article was written, and for the untold misery and death this has caused for the immigrants risking everything to get into mainland Europe and the countries they infest once they arrive.
Angela Merkel (again, and again) for plotting to replace Jean Claude Juncker in EU’s top role with a German. The successful appointee will be undoubtedly ably supported by Martin Selmayr (another German).
Martin Schultz.
Historians tell us Germany was the prime instigator of WW1 in which the total number of military and civilian casualties was around 40 million.
Historians tell us Germany was the prime instigator of WW2 in which somewhere between an estimated 70 million and 85 million people worldwide (or approximately 3% of the world’s population) died.
The USSR are portrayed as being the bad guys of Europe, however they fought alongside the British in both first and second world wars, against the Germans.
For people like Hitler, Himmler, Goring, Goebbels, Bormann, Hess, and for the horror that went on in the German concentration camps.
Germans, smug, arrogant, nasty bullies, who take what they want, either by force or by stealth.
In 2018, Germany (which as we all know is a hugely successful and very rich country) was unable to pay to NATO the full 2% of GDP contribution required, managing only just over 1%."
Source: Boaters' Update
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 17:29:53 GMT
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Post by dyertribe on Oct 21, 2018 19:40:57 GMT
LEAVER: I want an omelette.
REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.
LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]
REMAINER: They’re in the cake.
LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.
REMAINER: But we voted in 1974 to put them into a cake.
LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.
REMAINER: Icing is good.
LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.
DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.
DAVID CAMERON: OK.
DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.
LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?
REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.
LEAVER: Well, get them out.
EU: It’s our cake.
JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.
REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?
LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.
REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?
LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.
THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.
REMAINER: How?
THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.
REMAINER: Yeah, but…
LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.
EU: It’s our cake.
REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.
LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.
REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.
LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.
REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?
LEAVER: You lost, get over it.
THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.
REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?
THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.
REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?
JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.
EU: It’s our cake.
LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.
REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.
LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.
REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.
LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 22, 2018 4:12:09 GMT
Only Brexiteers didn't vote for a restriction of travel. Passports worked perfectly well - as they still do with the UK being outside the Schengen Agreement area, as indeed I experienced yesterday using my Passport to travel from Manchester to Helsinki.
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Post by Jim on Nov 8, 2018 15:53:36 GMT
Only Brexiteers didn't vote for a restriction of travel. Passports worked perfectly well - as they still do with the UK being outside the Schengen Agreement area, as indeed I experienced yesterday using my Passport to travel from Manchester to Helsinki. Wait till you have to get a visa for Pirrko! On a positive note, I just heard that my Grandma on my Mum's side was born in Eire. I need to see if any of my cousins have her birth certificate. Job sorted I can then claim Irish and EU citizenship.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 8, 2018 17:09:19 GMT
Only Brexiteers didn't vote for a restriction of travel. Passports worked perfectly well - as they still do with the UK being outside the Schengen Agreement area, as indeed I experienced yesterday using my Passport to travel from Manchester to Helsinki. Wait till you have to get a visa for Pirrko! On a positive note, I just heard that my Grandma on my Mum's side was born in Eire. I need to see if any of my cousins have her birth certificate. Job sorted I can then claim Irish and EU citizenship. Why would foreigners need visas? Passport + background check suffices. The border Police run your Passport through their computer, straight away it comes up with whether you're wanted for a crime or unpaid fine, etc. This is one of the main reasons people voted for Brexit because filth from all over the world are being let in to groom our kids and blow up things. I notice 'Brexiteers' seem to calmly accept the consequences of telling greedy Euro MPs to stew in their own corruption, and that it's the 'Remoaners' who are desperately creating all these scare scenarios. Perhaps you'd like to list the advantages of living under the German Jackboot (the EU)? I see no reason why things shouldn't continue more or less as they have been, but with the advantage of the UK keeping tabs on its own money and being free to say 'Yes' or 'No' to any suggestions or ideas the EU may come up with. There can still be co-operation. Slavery is NOT co-operation. Anyway, this will just rumble on, won't it? You clearly don't approve of 'Democracy' when people don't vote for what you want. I expect the reason you want the UK to stay withing the grasp of the Brussels Bureaucrats is that you're getting something out of it, or think you are. I prefer freedom, and the right to keep undesirable 'cultures' out of one's country.
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