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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 16:16:44 GMT
Cruised by a very handsome tug style boat, with a proper engine room and doors open.
Inside was the biggest lump of an engine I've ever seen.
The owner said it was a marine three cyclinder Kelvin diesel engine out of a sea going fishing boat.
Not being mechanically minded a lot of what he said flew by me, but one thing intrigued me greatly.
He said it is a petrol start.
Can any of you engine boffins explain that to me please.
Rog
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Post by JohnV on Sept 13, 2018 16:53:50 GMT
No Boffin but originally saw one of the bigger 6 cylinder versions in a scrap yard when I was looking for an engine for Sabina, huge thing that was actually too big to fit in Sabina's engine room. Fortunately it had a crack in part of the head which prevented me from making a fool of myself.
From memory it was about 10 foot long weighed about 8 tons and produced about 125 Hp ...... but shire horses not modern ponies,#
Apparently petrol start because until the engine has warmed up it does not have sufficient compression ratio to raise the temperature of the air it compresses to a high enough level to ignite diesel. You therefore start it on petrol which you pour into the carburetter first. apparently the length of time you run it on petrol before changing to diesel is dependent on what spells and incantations you chanted before hand ....... some sacrifices are also required but there is no necessity for it to be human
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Post by TonyDunkley on Sept 13, 2018 17:06:35 GMT
Cruised by a very handsome tug style boat, with a proper engine room and doors open. Inside was the biggest lump of an engine I've ever seen. The owner said it was a marine three cyclinder Kelvin diesel engine out of a sea going fishing boat. Not being mechanically minded a lot of what he said flew by me, but one thing intrigued me greatly. He said it is a petrol start. Can any of you engine boffins explain that to me please. Rog It would be a Kelvin '66'(bhp), or K3, . . they made a '44' (2 x cyl) and an '88' (4 x cyl) of the K-series as well. The petrol start system was needed for starting from cold because the compression ratio wasn't quite high enough to ignite atomised diesel fuel in a cold engine. It operated on a half-compression mechanism which opened up a secondary combustion chamber in each cylinder, and used a petrol engine style magneto and spark plugs. From the 1930's on the Kelvin K series was pretty well the standard Scottish fishing boat engine for every boat that didn't have Gleniffer, . . . British boats tended to favour Gardners, but not exclusvely, Kelvins and Gleniffers were installed in British boats too, and Gleniffers were tried out in some barges - good engines, but the gearboxes weren't up to inland waterway work where the barge's regular trading routes entailed a lot of lock working. |
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Post by JohnV on Sept 13, 2018 17:17:43 GMT
Knew an adult would be along soon to give a proper answer  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 18:35:10 GMT
They did a K1 as well.
A lot of the Kelvin J and K series have had thermo starts fitted which is a bit rude.
And as Gleniffer has been mentioned it's interesting to note that they (Gleniffer) used the Russell Newbery patented clerestory combustion chamber which employed cone shaped pistons and horizontal rather than vertical valves.
I find the horizontal valves to be a fundamental problem in terms of lubrication. However Russell Newbery, National and Gleniffer all used this arrangement. I'm not aware of any others that did.
I ran a RN DM2 for 12 years on a narrow boat and it was a good unit but I heard stories of older ones having stuck exhaust valves.
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Post by kris on Sept 13, 2018 18:50:22 GMT
Um a kelvin k3, I thinks there's a narrowboat somewhere with a 6lw which is completely ridiculous. But a k3 in a narrowboat is a bit ridiculous, he should give it to me. A k2 in s narrowboat would be nice.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 18:53:06 GMT
I bet the boat dogless saw was a RW Davis Northwich trader. There are a few of them with K3s in. Not a very satisfactory canal boat engine but good for show. I think there is a K4 somewhere. As for K2 there is one in this rather odd and cheap boat at Whilton www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/4382.aspx |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 19:49:55 GMT
It's a copy of an 1897 tug narrow boat but I'm uncertain who built the shell. It's certainly not the typical RW Davis boat.
It has a motor bike strapped on the tug front.
It's called Barbarian and has Woolaston Locks painted on the side.
He said the engine was out of a Scottish fishing boat, it acheived 66 hp and that it's tick over is at about 125rpm which sounded mental.
I'm still unclear about this petrol start for a diesel engine, sorry.
Perhaps someone could explain for a simpleton.
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 19:55:32 GMT
Um a kelvin k3, I thinks there's a narrowboat somewhere with a 6lw which is completely ridiculous. But a k3 in a narrowboat is a bit ridiculous, he should give it to me. A k2 in s narrowboat would be nice. I'm sure that was the previous biggest nb engine I'd seen. I saw it being lifted into a boat at Braunston, and I'm desperately trying to remember the boats name. Rog ETA maybe Canopus? |
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Post by bargemast on Sept 13, 2018 20:15:31 GMT
Cruised by a very handsome tug style boat, with a proper engine room and doors open. Inside was the biggest lump of an engine I've ever seen. The owner said it was a marine three cyclinder Kelvin diesel engine out of a sea going fishing boat. Not being mechanically minded a lot of what he said flew by me, but one thing intrigued me greatly. He said it is a petrol start. Can any of you engine boffins explain that to me please. Rog A picure will say more than a thousend words, and a complete video even more. After seeing this, you'll be an expert Rog. Peter. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 20:22:53 GMT
Thanks for the film. Makes more sense now. What a palaver  Rog |
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Post by bargemast on Sept 13, 2018 20:22:56 GMT
Um a kelvin k3, I thinks there's a narrowboat somewhere with a 6lw which is completely ridiculous. But a k3 in a narrowboat is a bit ridiculous, he should give it to me. A k2 in s narrowboat would be nice. I'm sure that was the previous biggest nb engine I'd seen. I saw it being lifted into a boat at Braunston, and I'm desperately trying to remember the boats name. Rog ETA maybe Canopus?Canopus had a SAMOFA 2-S-108 lifted in at Braunston, which is a similar sort of size to a Gardner 2LW. Peter. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 20:28:40 GMT
Thanks for the film. Makes more sense now. What a palaver Rog Thats why a lot of Kelvin petrol start units have had thermo starts fitted. It means you don't have to fanny about with the petrol bit. Quite rude for traditionalists but handy for people who just want to get the engine going. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 20:33:11 GMT
K3 is 66hp at 750rpm. Massive amount or torque. Like having a modern day diesel revving to 2500rpm producing about 220hp. Completely ridiculous and impossible to use that amount of power in a narrow boat. I think the Daewoo JohnV has in Sabena H has a similar rating - possibly slightly less. It must be fun giving it some oil on open water to be fair. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 20:40:10 GMT
I'm sure that was the previous biggest nb engine I'd seen. I saw it being lifted into a boat at Braunston, and I'm desperately trying to remember the boats name. Rog ETA maybe Canopus?Canopus had a SAMOFA 2-S-108 lifted in at Braunston, which is a similar sort of size to a Gardner 2LW. Peter. It was Canopus. The new owner had a Lister JP3 removed, and a large roof hatch had to be cut in by Roger Farrington. We were being blacked when the new engine was lowered in. I was sure it was a Gardner, but I would not argue engines with you, I'm far too ignorant. Rog |
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