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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 20:20:53 GMT
It was an English translation I read ... and a few years after first publication too Rog
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 21:12:09 GMT
Actually a book written by Thomas More, telling of an island state with religious, political and social freedom. Rog Yes indeed, although it was presented as a sort of travelogue, which was in itself novel, and was so successful a deception that for a time it was accepted as fact. Ultimately the word 'utopia' became synonymous with unrealistic and unachievable goals. 'Utopia' is credited with inspiring many later novels including 'Robinson Crusoe' and 'Gulliver's Travels', as well as creating the genre of dystopian fiction. Dystopian fiction - see:- Farenheit 451 Logan's Run Blade runner Death Race 2000 Mad Max series The Running Man Batman Total Recall The Matrix Equilibrium Oblivion The Dark Knight And to a certain extent The Terminator series. On and on an endless list of excellent films portraying a world that may yet come to pass 🤔
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 3:29:49 GMT
And just for Ricco: All well and good but the headline needs some adjustment, as follows : Can pay, won't pay. I found it a fine example of utopian fiction...
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 3:58:51 GMT
Yes indeed, although it was presented as a sort of travelogue, which was in itself novel, and was so successful a deception that for a time it was accepted as fact. Ultimately the word 'utopia' became synonymous with unrealistic and unachievable goals. 'Utopia' is credited with inspiring many later novels including 'Robinson Crusoe' and 'Gulliver's Travels', as well as creating the genre of dystopian fiction. Dystopian fiction - see:- Farenheit 451 Logan's Run Blade runner Death Race 2000 Mad Max series The Running Man Batman Total Recall The Matrix Equilibrium Oblivion The Dark Knight And to a certain extent The Terminator series. On and on an endless list of excellent films portraying a world that may yet come to pass 🤔 Sorry Gazza, have to disagree. For me a dystopian fiction is one which describes a seemingly perfect society which the reader can discern as actually a perverted nightmare. Thus the only actual dystopia you mention is perhaps 'Total Recall', and even then you're on shaky ground. 'Blade Runner' is a reasonably original tale* , supposing the biblical narrative of the expulsion of Lucifer from heaven is discounted. But 'Death Race 2000' and 'The Running Man' are just pot-boilers produced in the era of the video-nasty. In fact they are all to a greater or lesser extent simply postmodernist, which is characterised primarily by the leitmotif of decay. Thus 'Logan's Run' contains elements of dystopian fiction but is actually concerned with the loss of innocence (there goes that pesky bible story thing again). 'The Matrix' and 'Oblivion' are simply over-hyped derivatives of the same subject. I find it interesting you distinguish between 'The Dark Knight' and 'Batman'. Did you read Frank Miller's 'The Dark Knight Returns', which was the 90s comic (sorry 'graphic novel') that renewed all the interest in the character (and all the other superhero crap Hollywood is so fond of)? Read it here if you like: readcomiconline.to/Comic/Batman-The-Dark-Knight-Returns/Issue-1?id=81434* the novel (original title 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?') is quite different from the film, as are all of Phillip Dick's novels that have been adapted for the screen, which appear to be considered too challenging for the mainstream.
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Post by JohnV on May 17, 2020 5:28:10 GMT
It was an English translation I read ... and a few years after first publication too Rog Where did you find that English translat.......... oh! sorry, for a moment I thought you were talking about the Morning Star article
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Post by Clinton Cool on May 17, 2020 7:28:59 GMT
Dystopian fiction - see:- Farenheit 451 Logan's Run Blade runner Death Race 2000 Mad Max series The Running Man Batman Total Recall The Matrix Equilibrium Oblivion The Dark Knight And to a certain extent The Terminator series. On and on an endless list of excellent films portraying a world that may yet come to pass 🤔 Sorry Gazza, have to disagree. For me a dystopian fiction is one which describes a seemingly perfect society which the reader can discern as actually a perverted nightmare. Thus the only actual dystopia you mention is perhaps 'Total Recall', and even then you're on shaky ground. 'Blade Runner' is a reasonably original tale* , supposing the biblical narrative of the expulsion of Lucifer from heaven is discounted. But 'Death Race 2000' and 'The Running Man' are just pot-boilers produced in the era of the video-nasty. In fact they are all to a greater or lesser extent simply postmodernist, which is characterised primarily by the leitmotif of decay. Thus 'Logan's Run' contains elements of dystopian fiction but is actually concerned with the loss of innocence (there goes that pesky bible story thing again). 'The Matrix' and 'Oblivion' are simply over-hyped derivatives of the same subject. I find it interesting you distinguish between 'The Dark Knight' and 'Batman'. Did you read Frank Miller's 'The Dark Knight Returns', which was the 90s comic (sorry 'graphic novel') that renewed all the interest in the character (and all the other superhero crap Hollywood is so fond of)? Read it here if you like: readcomiconline.to/Comic/Batman-The-Dark-Knight-Returns/Issue-1?id=81434* the novel (original title 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?') is quite different from the film, as are all of Phillip Dick's novels that have been adapted for the screen, which appear to be considered too challenging for the mainstream. Wow I'm impressed by your ability to watch a film then analyse it to the extent that you can offer what I'm sure is a valid opinion as to which 'box' the film fits into. I'm probably the opposite of you. I watch films from time to time, but only if they engage me. Most don't. I've learned through experience that anything with any mention of 'Hollywood' has me reaching for the remote double quick. Beyond whether they engage me or not I find it difficult to talk much about films. I could say that Trainspotting was good, one of my favourites, because it depicted an environment and ways of life that are real. The violence was shocking but used in small doses, unlike 'Hollywood' violence which is over used and the hero with a great body and perfect teeth always survives multiple machine gun attacks, helicopter chases and police sirens that seem to go on for at least half of any film. I'm wondering, genuine question, do you sit back and enjoy a film then analyse it afterwards or do you watch them to analyse them, like a hobby or something?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 9:34:39 GMT
It depends on the film (or book, or even comic). A narrative which claims to be based on historical fact usually gets interrogated (the internet is a wonderful thing). But fiction is a different beast. I agree that Hollywood product is often predictable and not in a good way but sometimes a film where you 'leave your brain in a jar' is quite relaxing - example - 'Space Cowboys'. Total bollocks but fun. However if a film gets my attention then I'll watch it more than once. I've watched 'Blade Runner' to death. BTW, I don't consider 'Trainspotting' described reality to any significant degree. I find your statement that '...it depicted an environment and ways of life that are real...' interesting. My (happily) limited experience of drug addiction tells me that things aren't nearly as funny or interesting as that, although the scene where Begbie attacks a punter because he spilt his beer smacks of something the author witnessed. But Irvine Welsh was trying to write a saleable text. Some embellishment is inevitable, and this is in the nature of a good story well-told. Welsh was aiming for 'realism', but this is a concept separate from 'reality' and is more closely related to 'naturalism' and 'impressionism'. Do you recall the the scene where Renton disappears down a toilet? Consider this premise: there are only seven narratives in existence. 1 Overcoming the Monster. 2 Rags to Riches. 3 The Quest. 4 Voyage and Return. 5 Comedy. 6 Tragedy. 7 Rebirth. Which one best describes 'Trainspotting'?
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