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Post by rockdodger on Oct 11, 2016 1:33:01 GMT
I don't think pressure has been applied from outside. It's just a few members emailing dan and making enough fuss to make him pull the thread. If shoesmiths or crt had applied pressure, I think it would have been stated freely. Quite simply, Dan's being a prick, and is just moulding the forum into the shape he and a few others would prefer. He won't let it go, it's his plaything-status tool, and he wants everyone to know it. I wish he would agree to hand CWF to be turned into a limited company, with the members as shareholders. I would be willing to fund the transfer and run it for a year or so until things settled down. That would mean Dan & his sycophants could no longer play at being gods with CWDF members. I doubt if they would give up that power willingly. I suspect that unless Dan has a change of heart, we are witnessing the demise of the CWDF. Only time will tell if he is capable of seeing the damage the current scorched earth policy causing. Viva la resistance (or something like that)
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 11, 2016 7:36:03 GMT
I've just had a quick look through the 'Canning Dock' thread on CWDF to see how many posts have been wiped out and it looks as though "Gaggle", who started the thread but took very little part in it as it developed, has also been subjected to today's C&RT orientated bout of ethnic cleansing. His profile/avatar isn't working any more. Banned permantly by mrs wiggle , profanity and trolling a mod , so it says. The truth is that "Gaggle" PM'd me about a previous occasion when CWDF were suppressing adverse commentry with regard to C&RT, . . . something he had posted but was quickly taken down. A few minutes later he posted something to the same effect on the 'Canning Dock' thread and within an hour or so both of us had been wiped out. However much Dan and his coven of senile and/or menopausal schoolteachers deny that they are snooping through PM's, and covering up for and brown-noseing C&RT, there is no shortage of evidence that this is just what they are doing, and have been for quite some time. They really are beneath contempt, . . . they model their actions and behaviour on the likes of some of the worlds most oppressive and evil regimes, but lack the courage and honesty to admit it and do so openly.
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Post by alex on Oct 11, 2016 13:16:25 GMT
I thought I had posted a pm dan sent me onto a thread on here , dan was saying how something I had posted on cdwf could affect the relationship the site HAS with CRT , wether he has a relationship or not he clearly believes he has , anyway cant see it on here so maybe I posted onto mrs wiggle Just copy it again and paste on here. What could be simpler? Well I cant copy it now as they have closed me account , permantly as far as I know ,so unable to get to the pm dan sent me ,but I can absolutely assure you that dan referred to something I posted about richard parry and the fact he felt it could affect the RELATIONSHIP the site ,"CWDF" HAD WITH CRT. I took that to mean that dan really does feel he has a relationship with CRT and Richard Parry , he has learned nothing from what people have posted on his forums about both Parry and CRT. Gaggle, Following your post in Boater Sues C&RT for Section 8 which used profanity and published a message in order to harass and troll the site you are placed in temporary suspension, pending discussion by the moderating over your continuing ability to use the site. So by letting others know what dan has said to me ,harass and trolling the site ?
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Post by PaulG2 on Oct 11, 2016 13:43:12 GMT
I wish he would agree to hand CWF to be turned into a limited company, with the members as shareholders. I would be willing to fund the transfer and run it for a year or so until things settled down. That would mean Dan & his sycophants could no longer play at being gods with CWDF members. I doubt if they would give up that power willingly. I suspect that unless Dan has a change of heart, we are witnessing the demise of the CWDF. Only time will tell if he is capable of seeing the damage the current scorched earth policy causing. Viva la resistance (or something like that) The people who are running that forum now are total control freaks Considering that CWDF is a reflection on Dan Hutchinson, I can't help but wonder if he perhaps Dan had some kind of psychological problem come up in the last year or so, or did he perhaps begin drinking or drugging too much? I'm obviously have no factual knowledge of any of this, but one has to wonder why Dan Hutchinson just suddenly turned from being a tolerant, reasonable person into being such a control freak tyrant.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 13:47:42 GMT
That would mean Dan & his sycophants could no longer play at being gods with CWDF members. I doubt if they would give up that power willingly. I suspect that unless Dan has a change of heart, we are witnessing the demise of the CWDF. Only time will tell if he is capable of seeing the damage the current scorched earth policy causing. Viva la resistance (or something like that) The people who are running that forum now are total control freaks Considering that CWDF is a reflection on Dan Hutchinson, I can't help but wonder if he perhaps Dan had some kind of psychological problem come up in the last year or so, or did he perhaps begin drinking or drugging too much? I'm obviously have no factual knowledge of any of this, but one has to wonder why Dan Hutchinson just suddenly turned from being a tolerant, reasonable person into being such a control freak tyrant. Jilted by a lover? (Has become bitter and twisted). Lost his job? (Has become bitter and twisted). Lost brexit? (Has become bitter and twisted). Simply lost the plot?
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Post by rockdodger on Oct 11, 2016 14:40:07 GMT
Jilted by a lover? (Has become bitter and twisted). Lost his job? (Has become bitter and twisted). Lost brexit? (Has become bitter and twisted). Simply lost the plot? (D) All of the above ?
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 11, 2016 16:46:22 GMT
Just by way of an example of the extent of CWDF's willingness to try to suppress anything that is an embarrassment to C&RT or shows them up in a bad light, this is the C&RT document that 'Wrigglefingers' took down after I posted it, and initiated what was to become my final slight difference of opinion with Dan and his gang : ~
INTERIM SCHEDULE OF COSTS (29.09.2016)
Commercial Boat Services Full Quotation (27th June 2016)
Commercial Boat Services Costs* Awaiting Invoice
Marine Survey Costs* Awaiting Invoice
MCA Survey Costs* Awaiting Invoice
Repairs* Awaiting Invoice
Bailiffs 2x12 hour shifts, 2 officers* Awaiting Invoice
Tug Company, including 1 day in port 17250.00
Passage Plan (port of Liverpool costs 9445.00
Liability Insurance 1200.00
Storage at Sharpness (6 months) 5520.00
Weekly checks (for 6 months) 1482.00
Court Judgement Costs 23rd September Berthing fees 4900.65 Legal Costs 786.00
Berthing Fees (9 months) Berthing 2016 Jan 01 to September 30th 2016 2660.09
Insurance Costs, Loss & Damage (tbc) TBC
All figures Ex vat. VAT will be added as applicable to the final schedule of payments due.
____________________________________________________________
Of particular interest, and a major problem for C&RT, is the 5th item down ~ "Bailiffs" ~ who in truth weren't the HCEO's or CEA's the law demands be present in circumstances such as those in which "Planet" was seized, but personnel sent along by a local company not empowered to undertake anything more than factory and office maintenance, cleaning and security duties. This, together with the fact that at the time the ship was forcibly boarded and seized, C&RT did NOT have a CCJ, or a Writ or Court Order naming the ship or the owner, makes the entire process, at the very least, wholly unlawful/illegal. Despite written requests, C&RT and Shoosmiths are flatly refusing to confirm the identities of the personnel involved, or the name of the company that supplied them.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 11, 2016 18:37:00 GMT
"at the time the ship was forcibly boarded and seized, C&RT did NOT have a CCJ, or a Writ or Court Order naming the ship or the owner, makes the entire process, at the very least, wholly unlawful/illegal. Despite written requests, C&RT and Shoosmiths are flatly refusing to confirm the identities the personnel involved, or the name of the company that supplied them." Are newspapers, both local and national, aware of this? Have the Police had anything to say? Were the Police present at the, what seems to amount to, theft? I don't know what's been passed onto the Press or media, because I've left that side of things to other interested parties who are actively assisting from all over the UK. As for Merseyside Police, they have been made aware that the two officers, who attended solely to ensure that no breach of the peace occurred, were misled by C&RT into believing that they were attending a lawful procedure, and the matter has now been referred up to the Chief Constable. C&RT are in big trouble with this, not least of all because prior to seizing and removing the ship to Sharpness, they foolishly revealed, in writing, their plans to permanently deprive Alan Roberts of his property by declaring their intention to sell or otherwise dispose of it. Section 1 of the 1968 Theft Act gives a basic definition of theft :~ "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; . . . " C&RT can, and will, offer up a Defence to the charge of theft by claiming that they believed themselves entitled to take possession of and sell the vessel by virtue of clause 10.1.2 in the 'Termination' section of the T&C's purported to have been attached to the Berthing Agreement signed by the owner of "Planet", but in doing so will leave themselves open to challenge in respect of the validity and legality of clause 10.1.2, which in itself is nothing short of a blatant attempt to circumvent the statutory protection afforded the rightful owners of property (including 'vessels') under the Torts(Interference with Goods)Act 1977.
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Post by kris on Oct 11, 2016 18:41:30 GMT
I don't think pressure has been applied from outside. It's just a few members emailing dan and making enough fuss to make him pull the thread. If shoesmiths or crt had applied pressure, I think it would have been stated freely. Quite simply, Dan's being a prick, and is just moulding the forum into the shape he and a few others would prefer. He won't let it go, it's his plaything-status tool, and he wants everyone to know it. I wish he would agree to hand CWF to be turned into a limited company, with the members as shareholders. I would be willing to fund the transfer and run it for a year or so until things settled down. That's not going to happen, it would mean admitting they had been wrong.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 11, 2016 21:50:18 GMT
Crikey! 'By cunning and stealth, We'll increase our wealth!' In fact, that is just what C&RT cannot do. If they were to be foolish enough to sell the ship, then they would be obliged, by law, to pay the owner the balance remaining after deducting the costs incurred in the process of removing and selling it. The motivation for what they've done lies not in profit, but in sheer malice and spite.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 22:01:13 GMT
Crikey! 'By cunning and stealth, We'll increase our wealth!' In fact, that is just what C&RT cannot do. If they were to be foolish enough to sell the ship, then they would be obliged, by law, to pay the balance remaining after deducting the costs incurred in the process of removing and selling it. The motivation for what they've done lies not in profit, but in sheer malice and spite. I can vouch for the spite remark. I've met most of them at one time or another, and decided some are driven by spite. It's ridiculous really that these positions held at the top of crt have such mindsets. Just look at the "gitgate" episode involving Matthew Symonds, it was disgusting the way some at crt gloated on their Facebook pages. It provided a firm and concise picture of the behaviour by some with well paid positions, who should really know a lot better.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 22:21:53 GMT
An open letter to Matthew Symonds and CRT
Following Matthew Symonds’ denial on Twitter that he referred to liveaboard boaters as “gits”, one of the former colleagues who heard him make the remarks, has written the open letter below to Mr Symonds and CRT Customer Feedback. Headed “An Open Letter Re: Article: ‘CRT Relationship Manager: Liveaboards are ‘gits’, Yaz Brien writes:
Dear Matthew,
I’m not sure that you’d remember me, although we’ve crossed paths a few times over the years.
The first was at an event back in 2007. I was working as Bristol’s Race Forum Development Worker, and you were giving an update to the voluntary sector about the latest local authority strategies.
The second time was in 2011 when I toured you around Bristol Wood Recycling Project during their birthday celebration. I was recently in post as an Employee Director, and you’d accepted our invitation on behalf of the organisation you were working for. I enjoyed our chats as I showed you around, and we talked at length about the work that we were both doing.
The third time was earlier this year, as I was leaving a training session with former colleagues of yours. It was the 4th February to be exact, and we were hovering on the pavement outside the Southville Centre as you passed by and stopped for a quick hello with those that you knew. It was this conversation that forms the source of the comments that you state. via Twitter, are “certainly not something I’ve ever said”. But you did say them Matthew, and you said them twice.
As the group of us swelled with people leaving the training session, twice you were directly asked about your new job as Strategy and Engagement Manager at CRT, as your former colleagues were genuinely interested as to how it was going. Twice you commented that you loved your job, ‘aside from the gits on the liveaboards’. In fact, I recollect they were the only two comments that you made specifically about your job, suggesting to me that they may have been the two most pressing things on your mind when you thought about your work.
From my previous encounters with you, I was surprised and disappointed to hear those words coming from you, however much you may have meant them in jest or good humour. Whilst I appreciate that CRT endeavours to balance a number of needs in relation to the canal network, and understand that those needs may at times be in conflict, making even offhand comments about a section of the beneficiaries of CRT is indeed a serious cause for concern. Furthermore, while you have publically made pains to reinforce the fact that CRT is not a public body, and therefore you are not a public officer, your specific role does include managing and developing relationships across the canal network. My confidence in your ability to do that fairly, and with the needs of all beneficiaries equally in your mind waned on that day, and this is why I have spoken with boat dwelling friends about our encounter and the broader issues with CRT.
To hear now that you have publicly stated, via Twitter, “It is not something I would ever say” and “Certainly not something I’ve ever said” is even more disappointing. While I appreciate that you may regret that these words have now entered a public sphere, I’m displeased to think that you would deny they were ever spoken.
And don’t get me wrong, I was as surprised as you to hear that conversations I have had about our encounter are now in written form swirling around the internet. From my part, I did not write nor publish the article written about you, and nor do I know the writer. But I do know that former colleagues of yours looked uncomfortably over at me when you made the “git” comment as they know I have long been planning to move onto the canal, and also know that I have close ties with members of the boating community around the Kennet and Avon and beyond.
Prior to this role at CRT you had a strong track record in neighbourhoods and communities work, but something is clearly going wrong. And while I don’t want my sharing of your words to become a witch-hunt against you, as you are merely a functionary within a bigger organisation with a strategy in place for management of the waterways, they do lead me to question the current culture, structure and decision-making body at CRT as a whole.
While, as Wikipedia points out, “git” “is usually an insult, more severe than twit or idiot but less severe than wanker, arsehole or twat”, it is not the strength of the insult that is the issue. It is a derogatory comment about a section of the canal community just at the time that the Canal and River Trust is being publically challenged to be accountable, consistant and transparent as to the rules and stipulations that those license holders who are continuously cruising are expected to adhere to.
It is time for CRT to enter into a transparent and constructive dialogue with the continuous cruising users of the waterways, and to cease prohibitive, unclear and constantly changing measures for how continuous cruisers can maintain their licenses and their homes. These positions have been much more eloquently presented to you by boat dwellers themselves, and they must be addressed by CRT.
Yours sincerely,
Yaz Brien
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Post by larkboy on Oct 11, 2016 22:29:58 GMT
An open letter to Matthew Symonds and CRT Following Matthew Symonds’ denial on Twitter that he referred to liveaboard boaters as “gits”, one of the former colleagues who heard him make the remarks, has written the open letter below to Mr Symonds and CRT Customer Feedback. Headed “An Open Letter Re: Article: ‘CRT Relationship Manager: Liveaboards are ‘gits’, Yaz Brien writes: Dear Matthew, I’m not sure that you’d remember me, although we’ve crossed paths a few times over the years. The first was at an event back in 2007. I was working as Bristol’s Race Forum Development Worker, and you were giving an update to the voluntary sector about the latest local authority strategies. The second time was in 2011 when I toured you around Bristol Wood Recycling Project during their birthday celebration. I was recently in post as an Employee Director, and you’d accepted our invitation on behalf of the organisation you were working for. I enjoyed our chats as I showed you around, and we talked at length about the work that we were both doing. The third time was earlier this year, as I was leaving a training session with former colleagues of yours. It was the 4th February to be exact, and we were hovering on the pavement outside the Southville Centre as you passed by and stopped for a quick hello with those that you knew. It was this conversation that forms the source of the comments that you state. via Twitter, are “certainly not something I’ve ever said”. But you did say them Matthew, and you said them twice. As the group of us swelled with people leaving the training session, twice you were directly asked about your new job as Strategy and Engagement Manager at CRT, as your former colleagues were genuinely interested as to how it was going. Twice you commented that you loved your job, ‘aside from the gits on the liveaboards’. In fact, I recollect they were the only two comments that you made specifically about your job, suggesting to me that they may have been the two most pressing things on your mind when you thought about your work. From my previous encounters with you, I was surprised and disappointed to hear those words coming from you, however much you may have meant them in jest or good humour. Whilst I appreciate that CRT endeavours to balance a number of needs in relation to the canal network, and understand that those needs may at times be in conflict, making even offhand comments about a section of the beneficiaries of CRT is indeed a serious cause for concern. Furthermore, while you have publically made pains to reinforce the fact that CRT is not a public body, and therefore you are not a public officer, your specific role does include managing and developing relationships across the canal network. My confidence in your ability to do that fairly, and with the needs of all beneficiaries equally in your mind waned on that day, and this is why I have spoken with boat dwelling friends about our encounter and the broader issues with CRT. To hear now that you have publicly stated, via Twitter, “It is not something I would ever say” and “Certainly not something I’ve ever said” is even more disappointing. While I appreciate that you may regret that these words have now entered a public sphere, I’m displeased to think that you would deny they were ever spoken. And don’t get me wrong, I was as surprised as you to hear that conversations I have had about our encounter are now in written form swirling around the internet. From my part, I did not write nor publish the article written about you, and nor do I know the writer. But I do know that former colleagues of yours looked uncomfortably over at me when you made the “git” comment as they know I have long been planning to move onto the canal, and also know that I have close ties with members of the boating community around the Kennet and Avon and beyond. Prior to this role at CRT you had a strong track record in neighbourhoods and communities work, but something is clearly going wrong. And while I don’t want my sharing of your words to become a witch-hunt against you, as you are merely a functionary within a bigger organisation with a strategy in place for management of the waterways, they do lead me to question the current culture, structure and decision-making body at CRT as a whole. While, as Wikipedia points out, “git” “is usually an insult, more severe than twit or idiot but less severe than wanker, arsehole or twat”, it is not the strength of the insult that is the issue. It is a derogatory comment about a section of the canal community just at the time that the Canal and River Trust is being publically challenged to be accountable, consistant and transparent as to the rules and stipulations that those license holders who are continuously cruising are expected to adhere to. It is time for CRT to enter into a transparent and constructive dialogue with the continuous cruising users of the waterways, and to cease prohibitive, unclear and constantly changing measures for how continuous cruisers can maintain their licenses and their homes. These positions have been much more eloquently presented to you by boat dwellers themselves, and they must be addressed by CRT. Yours sincerely, Yaz Brief I hope this open letter might cause Matthew Symonds to take stock, but I doubt it. It will, unfortunately, take more than what is an eloquent and heartfelt letter to change such seemingly endemic attitudes, but it does illustrate the dishonesty.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 22:44:35 GMT
This below was Symonds reply;
Hello Yaz Yes, I remember you, the good work that you were involved in at the Bristol Wood Recycling project in Bristol and the brief time we met outside the Southville Centre when you and my former colleagues were attending the training session there, but that's where our memories start to differ I'm afraid.
I'm sure I would have mentioned that my new job was challenging and rewarding - but as I have already stated, the words attributed to me are not ones that I said - it's not even a term I generally use. I've said many times, publicly and privately, that living on the canals can be a great lifestyle - but it's important to be aware what is involved. We're also obligated to fairly apply the rules as set down in the Act of Parliament to all boaters.
I agree that a constructive dialogue with continuous cruiser boaters is important. I can assure you that I, and colleagues, remain committed to that process. In the past few weeks alone I have had around ten hours of meetings with continuous cruiser boaters. I'm eager to continue those conversations to find agreement where we can, although I accept that we are unlikely to agree on everything.
Understandably in some of the work I'm involved with feelings can run high. I know this from some of the less polite messages I have received in relation to my work. However, I personally always believe that polite and civilised engagement is the best way forward. Although we can't (and wouldn't want to) give prescriptive or individual guidance on how boats should move to meet our guidance for boaters without a home mooring, we have given more details of what we expect movement to be as a minimum over a year. Alongside this are details of the continuous cruiser monitoring process and an online map so boaters can see the kilometre lengths that we record boat sightings against. This information can help live aboard boaters to plan their movements in line with the guidance.
You don't mention whether you did take up residency on the water - if you did, I hope you're enjoying it and maybe I'll see you on the towpath. If not I might bump into you on the canal or somewhere else. Best wishes, Matthew
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Post by kris on Oct 11, 2016 22:49:43 GMT
The best was when he was interviewed on c4 news, he made himself look a right idiot. Well to be honest he looked like an idiot in the film "off the cut." So if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
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