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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 8:03:01 GMT
I would think that will be open to interpretation..not just by CRT but also the courts. I think it would be wise for boaters to log their distance travelled. Trouble is there are so many people who will not do anything..same as with any threat to livelihoods. Apathy of boaters is the weapon that CRT rely on to win. Rather than apathy it’s more about ‘balance’. By that I mean I might choose to not comply with crt’s new T&Cs which will result in CRT revoking my licence and then because I am now unlicensed issuing a section 8. At this point I can either give in and leave crt waters or I can go to court and fight it. This is potentially very expensive. Even if ‘in the right’ without competent legal representation you may still loose. Others have taken this route and won but my feeling is that most lose and end up with huge legal costs. So for most boaters this is not a fight they wish to undertake as the benefits of ignoring the T&C clauses they don’t like are small compared to the risk. so most boaters will grumble about it but comply anyway. I agree with you on most of this post, but in my view apathy is the main issue. Enough people forming some sort of opposition could change this before it is put to paper, but they won't. Only a small number will actually voice their concerns, leaving the majority undermining and taking the piss out of the minority because they are embarrassed at not having the guts to do anything themselves. This is definitely apathy.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 29, 2020 8:14:33 GMT
Rather than apathy it’s more about ‘balance’. By that I mean I might choose to not comply with crt’s new T&Cs which will result in CRT revoking my licence and then because I am now unlicensed issuing a section 8. At this point I can either give in and leave crt waters or I can go to court and fight it. This is potentially very expensive. Even if ‘in the right’ without competent legal representation you may still loose. Others have taken this route and won but my feeling is that most lose and end up with huge legal costs. So for most boaters this is not a fight they wish to undertake as the benefits of ignoring the T&C clauses they don’t like are small compared to the risk. so most boaters will grumble about it but comply anyway. I agree with you on most of this post, but in my view apathy is the main issue. Enough people forming some sort of opposition could change this before it is put to paper, but they won't. Only a small number will actually voice their concerns, leaving the majority undermining and taking the piss out of the minority because they are embarrassed at not having the guts to do anything themselves. This is definitely apathy. We'll be watching intently and cheering you on when you take CRT to Court in an heroic action of non-apathy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 8:29:24 GMT
And consequently, in pops the village idiot ^^^^^^ to perfectly prove my point.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 8:35:17 GMT
Yes but naughtyfox probably won't feel any negative effect anyway. Who knows he might even be quite happy to see some of the more scrappy boats cleared. Thats not apathy
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Post by lollygagger on Sept 29, 2020 8:36:13 GMT
Apathy born from experience? Many routinely break CRTs rules with zero comeback. Not a whisper. Why? Because nobody at CRT gives a crap in that particular area because there are no mooring problems reported.
Many boating people will continue to conclude the rules are there as a last resort to tackle "others" "elsewhere" such that it really doesn't matter what the rules say if you use your common sense and don't get up other peoples noses simply because you percieve you have the "right" to do so. That kind of behaviour historically in all walks of life leads to rule tightening. Tony's BSC exemption debacle is a glaring example.
On the other hand it is rather insulting to group "everyone else" together as completely apathetic. While they won't be going on hunger strike outside parliament, I know from previous times that to a man people who never even leave the marina will object to every proposed change on the survey and many will spend however long it takes to additionally spell out exactly why.
It will make no difference but at least it'll be on some sort of record somewhere if the unsuitable CRT leadership is ever called to account.
These polls are intended only to soften the blow via advance warning, to smooth the objection curve into insignificance - save the CRT.
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Post by kris on Sept 29, 2020 8:39:54 GMT
The fact is that nothing that cart preposes in these changes is going to effect the out and out pisstakers. The ones who don’t bother with a licence a registration no or insurance or safety cert. There are quite a few like that, crt leave them alone because it’s easier to go for the low hanging fruit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 9:02:05 GMT
I would think that will be open to interpretation..not just by CRT but also the courts. I think it would be wise for boaters to log their distance travelled. Trouble is there are so many people who will not do anything..same as with any threat to livelihoods. Apathy of boaters is the weapon that CRT rely on to win. Rather than apathy it’s more about ‘fear’. By that I mean I might choose to not comply with crt’s new T&Cs which will result in CRT revoking my licence and then because I am now unlicensed issuing a section 8. At this point I can either give in and leave crt waters or I can go to court and fight it. This is potentially very expensive. Even if ‘in the right’ without competent legal representation you may still loose. Others have taken this route and won but my feeling is that most lose and end up with huge legal costs. So for most boaters this is not a fight they wish to undertake as the benefits of ignoring the T&C clauses they don’t like are small compared to the risk. so most boaters will grumble about it but comply anyway. Problem with court is you wont be fighting about the fact that the licence was revoked this doesn't come into the proceedings , you will be fighting over the fact that you don't have a licence and cart want to section 8 your boat, which is really an open and shut case in carts favour. You would need to take them to judicial review? for revoking the licence otherwise you will lose. ? Not sure judicial review is correct but you need to take action rather than waiting for them to do so.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 29, 2020 10:56:36 GMT
Yes but naughtyfox probably won't feel any negative effect anyway. Who knows he might even be quite happy to see some of the more scrappy boats cleared. Thats not apathy What is CRT proposing? To drop hand grenades down the chimneys of foul-mouthed unlicenced piss-takers moored up beside the water points months on end? Anyway, you apathetic lot, how about someone here organising a Save Our Waterways From CRT march? Trafalgar Square next Saturday? At the same time we can check on the boater who's starving himself to death outside Parliament... only I bet he's just gone home by now. Where is he?
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Post by patty on Sept 29, 2020 11:19:59 GMT
I would think that will be open to interpretation..not just by CRT but also the courts. I think it would be wise for boaters to log their distance travelled. Trouble is there are so many people who will not do anything..same as with any threat to livelihoods. Apathy of boaters is the weapon that CRT rely on to win. Rather than apathy it’s more about ‘fear’. By that I mean I might choose to not comply with crt’s new T&Cs which will result in CRT revoking my licence and then because I am now unlicensed issuing a section 8. At this point I can either give in and leave crt waters or I can go to court and fight it. This is potentially very expensive. Even if ‘in the right’ without competent legal representation you may still loose. Others have taken this route and won but my feeling is that most lose and end up with huge legal costs. So for most boaters this is not a fight they wish to undertake as the benefits of ignoring the T&C clauses they don’t like are small compared to the risk. so most boaters will grumble about it but comply anyway. I didn't phrase that very well..what I meant is basically what u said.... ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 11:42:36 GMT
I see jerra on cwdf is again displaying his expertise at being as thick as shit. Some things will never change.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Sept 29, 2020 11:48:18 GMT
I see jerra on cwdf is again displaying his expertise at being as thick as shit. Some things will never change. To be fair, though, he is doing his best for CWDF against some fairly stiff competition from some on here !
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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 29, 2020 12:02:56 GMT
It could have been worse for Thunderboat members. For example:
Issue: Various structures have appeared alongside the canal in recent times, without the express permission of the Trust.
Solution: Any structure built along the canal without permission, regardless of how fetching it might be, will be destroyed by CRT high-viz wearing goons.
Issue: It's been reported that boaters, on occasion, have assisted in the theft of boats on the network.
Solution: Any boater found to have assisted in the theft of a boat will have their licence rescinded. Their own boat will be towed away by Trust high-viz wearing goons, and crushed.
Issue: It's been reported that engines have been left on stern decks for extended periods. Key canal network users such as dog walkers and cyclists have described this as being 'unsightly', and has led to some reporting distress.
Solution: The Trust will take the opportunity to simplify the rules and equalise the time periods for mooring in one place and leaving engines on stern decks. The limit for both is now 14 days.
Issue: It's been reported that some boaters have been indulging in intimate contact with strings of different partners. This is against social distancing guidelines as well as being immoral.
Solution: The Trust will make judicious use of its powers to mount sorry, board boats moored on its network. Any boater found to be breaching government rules will be reported to Boris.
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Post by patty on Sept 29, 2020 16:59:27 GMT
It could have been worse for Thunderboat members. For example: Issue: Various structures have appeared alongside the canal in recent times, without the express permission of the Trust. Solution: Any structure built along the canal without permission, regardless of how fetching it might be, will be destroyed by CRT high-viz wearing goons. Issue: It's been reported that boaters, on occasion, have assisted in the theft of boats on the network. Solution: Any boater found to have assisted in the theft of a boat will have their licence rescinded. Their own boat will be towed away by Trust high-viz wearing goons, and crushed. Issue: It's been reported that engines have been left on stern decks for extended periods. Key canal network users such as dog walkers and cyclists have described this as being 'unsightly', and has led to some reporting distress. Solution: The Trust will take the opportunity to simplify the rules and equalise the time periods for mooring in one place and leaving engines on stern decks. The limit for both is now 14 days. Issue: It's been reported that some boaters have been indulging in intimate contact with strings of different partners. This is against social distancing guidelines as well as being immoral. Solution: The Trust will make judicious use of its powers to mount sorry, board boats moored on its network. Any boater found to be breaching government rules will be reported to Boris. I'm not sure I know details of all of the above alleged misdemeanours however tis grim reading and clearly illustrates that some on here are on dodgy ground where CRT are concerned....Repent before its too late...
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Post by TonyDunkley on Sept 30, 2020 7:10:26 GMT
So, . . more than six years after C&RT were forced for the first time ever into ignominiously withdrawing from one of their regular County Court Section 8 pantomimes, . . and you still believe that the Court hearings to which C&RT have subjected selected pleasure boat owners were part of a process to establish a breach of the Licence T&C's ? That’s not what I said Tony, maybe try reading what I have posted. While it’s flattering that you feel what I post on a very niche forum is worth following and criticising. It’s a bit worrying you’ve got nothing better to do with your life. Maybe try to direct you ire in the right direction. Don't kid yourself ! The sole reason for responding to any of the weak-kneed drivel you post on TB is to provide an alternative and rather more thoughtful view of things for the few with enough nous to appreciate it.
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Post by kris on Sept 30, 2020 7:13:04 GMT
That’s not what I said Tony, maybe try reading what I have posted. While it’s flattering that you feel what I post on a very niche forum is worth following and criticising. It’s a bit worrying you’ve got nothing better to do with your life. Maybe try to direct you ire in the right direction. Don't kid yourself ! The sole reason for responding to any of the weak-kneed drivel you post on TB is to provide an alternative and rather more thoughtful view of things for the few with enough nous to appreciate it. That includes misreading what is written does it Tony? Maybe you should go to spec savers?
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