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Post by peterboat on Oct 24, 2016 20:46:45 GMT
The EU rhetoric is not benevolent. Alot of that is grandstanding, but they are also going to refuse any meaningful negotiation before Article 50 has been triggered. It would be unwise for us to give out much more than vague references. It is very frustrating for those in parliament, I understand, but they are masters of vagueness. They should understand the rules. I believe they do understand and are merely trying to unnerve Theresa May and scotch Brexit. I can still see our exit being defeated. It would not surprise me in the least if when the negotiations have been completed, parliament debate the result and vote it down. The government will be forced to make it a confidence issue, which they could well lose. May would have to resign, and there would be a general election, with you have guessed it, non of the major parties running a manifesto commitment to continue with brexit. The new government will then notify the EU of their intention to cancel our departure, which will be accepted, because the EU know we are more beneficial to them in the club, rather than out. I hope I am wrong but I won't be surprised. Your cup is nearly empty Phil!! It will happen as planned I suspect parliament will be able to debate Brexit but will be denied a vote because of the very fears you have mentioned
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Post by Phil on Oct 24, 2016 20:51:56 GMT
I can still see our exit being defeated. It would not surprise me in the least if when the negotiations have been completed, parliament debate the result and vote it down. The government will be forced to make it a confidence issue, which they could well lose. May would have to resign, and there would be a general election, with you have guessed it, non of the major parties running a manifesto commitment to continue with brexit. The new government will then notify the EU of their intention to cancel our departure, which will be accepted, because the EU know we are more beneficial to them in the club, rather than out. I hope I am wrong but I won't be surprised. Your cup is nearly empty Phil!! It will happen as planned I suspect parliament will be able to debate Brexit but will be denied a vote because of the very fears you have mentioned I think the problem is, although they have so far been denied a vote on commencing the process, they have already been told they WILL get to vote the end result. As for my cup being half empty, that's because the sneaky buggers will do everything they can to usurp the public vote.
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Post by peterboat on Oct 24, 2016 21:12:06 GMT
Your cup is nearly empty Phil!! It will happen as planned I suspect parliament will be able to debate Brexit but will be denied a vote because of the very fears you have mentioned I think the problem is, although they have so far been denied a vote on commencing the process, they have already been told they WILL get to vote the end result. As for my cup being half empty, that's because the sneaky buggers will do everything they can to usurp the public vote. Fingers crossed that no vote is held as none is required, We the public were asked what we thought and we understood the consequences [cameron and osborn made sure of that with project fear] and yet still we voted for freedom.
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Post by Higgs on Oct 25, 2016 1:37:27 GMT
They, those that are up to mischief in the commons, are nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites. When Theresa May says " Brexit means Brexit", they ask "what does Brexit mean". As if, had things gone the other way, they'd obviously (not) be trying to answer the question "what does Remain mean".
To them, the meaning of Remain would have been obvious and it wouldn't have meant a bit Brexit, but mostly remain.. We probably would not be asking what remain meant., as in - to what degree of remain does remain quantify.
Kenneth Clark wants to represent the will of his constituents - would that happen to be by any chance a majority will? These remain politicians seem to have a hard time understanding that 'majority' word when it does not favour their position, but understand it very well when it does. Nichola Sturgeon is just the same - she understands what a majority Scottish vote against Brexit meant, but oddly does not understand a country-wide majority vote in favour of Brexit.
They are a bunch of hounds looking for blood. I can't bring myself to respect them. We have the business sector trying to mould democracy in their vision for their benefit by putting pressure on to overturn a referendum vote.
Our parliamentary democratic representatives are going the right way to trash the very thing they are there to preserve and uphold.
If we decide to discuss our plans in front of the whole bloody world, the EU will simply return and say - "you can't have that, we can't agree to this", before we even reach the negotiation table. Parliament, as in remainers, will ridicule brexit even further and they will smell blood.
I'd say to Theresa May - don't give them an inch to get a crow bar in. Don't delay with Article 50.
Nichola Sturgeon - Scotland have a trade deficit and other UK tax payers foot that bill, and oil will not make up the diference.
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Post by peterboat on Oct 25, 2016 8:10:20 GMT
Same today Heathrow extension ex ceo tesco, it will be good for business oh and people!! Its all about big businesses getting a cheap source of labour, keeping the wage down in this country, we saw that the ones with blinkers did not
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Post by Mr Stabby on Oct 25, 2016 19:12:45 GMT
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Post by peterboat on Oct 25, 2016 19:29:35 GMT
My sister has just come back from Malta she found it expensive not because of the pound to euro but because prices just seemed very high 4.5 euros for a local beer [we paid 3 euros earlier this year] and food she thought was a touch pricey as well. It may be that the EU as you have pointed out might be in trouble
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Post by Higgs on Oct 25, 2016 20:27:30 GMT
A province of Belgium, Wallonia, has managed to veto a trade deal that has taken 7 years to negotiate between Canada and the EU. It has managed this veto, because all provinces of Belgium have to agree deals acceptable before Belgium can actually act as a member of 28 in the EU.
Given that these negotiations have been going on for 7 years and the EU and Canada had reached the stage of completion and the deal was about to be ratified when..... WALLONIA. It's about politics, not the trade deal, according to the news on BBC 4, this morning. Apparently some political parties have been neglected and have little representation at parliament. That's the jist of it and missing detail.
OK, that's one province in an EU country having the effect of a veto. The province has a population of about 3 million. Beggars belief, don't you think. An EU population of roughly 500 million being stymied by a province.
Just imagine what Nichola Sturgeon could conceivably get up to with an independent Scotland in the EU. A new Merkel waiting in the wings. The power of veto , but mainly POWER. Would you trust that woman, I know I wouldn't.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Oct 25, 2016 20:56:34 GMT
The best thing to do would be to leave then do everything possible to fuck up the economy. Following this, apply to re join the union. Britain could then be a recipient of lots of lovely EU money, rather than being one of its biggest contributors.
From this point the trick would be to follow the lead of Ireland:
Continue to fuck up the economy to ensure the income stream from the EU. Pay massive benefits to everyone, invest lots of non existent money in huge infrastructure projects. Then, at a carefully chosen time, attract lots of overseas investment by offering (illegally) low rates of corporation tax. Hey presto! a few years later the citizens have the highest income in the union, whilst still continuing to receive lots of 'welfare' money from 'richer' EU brother nations.
What's not to like?
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Post by Albion on Oct 25, 2016 21:03:05 GMT
A province of Belgium, Wallonia, has managed to veto a trade deal that has taken 7 years to negotiate between Canada and the EU. It has managed this veto, because all provinces of Belgium have to agree deals acceptable before Belgium can actually act as a member of 28 in the EU. Given that these negotiations have been going on for 7 years and the EU and Canada had reached the stage of completion and the deal was about to be ratified when..... WALLONIA. It's about politics, not the trade deal, according to the news on BBC 4, this morning. Apparently some political parties have been neglected and have little representation at parliament. That's the jist of it and missing detail. OK, that's one province in an EU country having the effect of a veto. The province has a population of about 3 million. Beggars belief, don't you think. An EU population of roughly 500 million being stymied by a province. Just imagine what Nichola Sturgeon could conceivably get up to with an independent Scotland in the EU. A new Merkel waiting in the wings. The power of veto , but mainly POWER. Would you trust that woman, I know I wouldn't. If one province in Belgium can upset the apple cart because of Belgium's internal political structure then imagine how unlikely it is to get all the other states to agree with each other on major policy decisions with their own interests a priority. Unfortunately that chaotic system will allow just one state to veto deals involved in the Brexit negotiations as well, I believe. Roger
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Post by Higgs on Oct 26, 2016 4:30:12 GMT
A province of Belgium, Wallonia, has managed to veto a trade deal that has taken 7 years to negotiate between Canada and the EU. It has managed this veto, because all provinces of Belgium have to agree deals acceptable before Belgium can actually act as a member of 28 in the EU. Given that these negotiations have been going on for 7 years and the EU and Canada had reached the stage of completion and the deal was about to be ratified when..... WALLONIA. It's about politics, not the trade deal, according to the news on BBC 4, this morning. Apparently some political parties have been neglected and have little representation at parliament. That's the jist of it and missing detail. OK, that's one province in an EU country having the effect of a veto. The province has a population of about 3 million. Beggars belief, don't you think. An EU population of roughly 500 million being stymied by a province. Just imagine what Nichola Sturgeon could conceivably get up to with an independent Scotland in the EU. A new Merkel waiting in the wings. The power of veto , but mainly POWER. Would you trust that woman, I know I wouldn't. If one province in Belgium can upset the apple cart because of Belgium's internal political structure then imagine how unlikely it is to get all the other states to agree with each other on major policy decisions with their own interests a priority. Unfortunately that chaotic system will allow just one state to veto deals involved in the Brexit negotiations as well, I believe. Roger Yes, it will make negotiations with the UK over Brexit very likely very frustrating for the UK. I think it will point out just what a trap the EU is for every country. It makes dictatorship the only practical political system for the EU, to make it run smoothly. Relinquish national freedom for the sake of business, oh and, keep free movement of people for the benefit of business. Business dictatorship. ?
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 26, 2016 6:51:48 GMT
1 British Pound = 1.12 Euros this morning. I'm so glad I'm earning Euros. This means that a sack of coal will cost me 14 Euros today instead of 17 Euros in June.
However - you want to hear my latest pay rise? 2 cents/hour. That's 16 cents a day. A cup of coffee here in the cafe at the bus station in Kannus costs 1.50 Euros. Only need 10 days' work to pay for one cup of coffee. What a great trades union we have.
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Post by Higgs on Oct 27, 2016 17:23:03 GMT
I see that Wallonia seem to have been appeased and the free trade agreement between the EU and Canada (CETA) is on again. Having looked at a document describing the deal, there is nothing about the free movement of people. The only mention of the movement of people is between professionals. The only barrier to that is the qualifications in Canada aren't recognised in the EU and visa versa. Professions like architects, accountants and engineers were mentioned, but nothing about Polish plumbers or Romanian farm workers. On the surface, it doesn't seem to be an open ended invitation for every tom, dick and harry. Free trade, yes.
We'll just have to have the same deal as Canada, Mr Junker.
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Post by bodger on Oct 27, 2016 20:27:34 GMT
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Post by peterboat on Oct 27, 2016 20:56:13 GMT
Old news it was mentioned in this thread earlier, however most MPs like the gravy train they are on so they for the most whisper and mutter but wont risk the wrath of the people at the next election. Can you imagine if they did UKIP would have a field day and maybe win a lot of seats out of it
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