Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 17:12:08 GMT
Because if he had an accident while gliding, for example, and needed urgent medical care the hospital would be unavailable due to being full of antivaxxer conspiracy theory nutters who have caught Covid and called on the NHS to save them. Since there is no need for anyone to go gliding, any such incident would be self-inflicted and therefore undeserving of NHS attention. Well other random accidents then like getting his head stuck in a doorway. I'm sure you get the drift generally.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 18:31:37 GMT
Now lets look at the Sage Worst Case Scenario - care to tell me whether that was correct when compared to the two lower death rate predictions... As far as I can work out Sage were predicting less than an average of 100 deaths a day by mid November, instead we are currently around the 400 mark even with the measures put in place. 400 of what? On average about 1500 die in the UK each week under normal circumstances. We still seem to be missing out another important factor in all of this. The Covid death figures are based on people being tested positive within a few weeks of the death. What is severely lacking is that the figures don't show to what degree Covid was a factor in the death. So if someone was killed in a road accident, they still get flagged as a Covid death if they were tested positive. We already know that the majority of people who contract Covid have no symptoms or mild symptoms. That still applies to those submitted to hospital for any reason. Ok lets go for number of people in hospital (due to covid) figures, would you be ok in thinking that is a better number to debate about?
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 13, 2020 18:32:03 GMT
Pharma must be a fantastic business to be in. Your product has the most enormous mark-up and then the Government makes it compulsory for everybody to consume it. Because it's funded through taxation, even the poorest people. Yet another assumption. For every drug that comes to market tens of others fall by the wayside in the development process, whether it is at the first hurdle or in the final phase of trials. All these failures cost, clinical trials cost, dealing with all the stakeholders, governments, healthcare providers, costs. Patents on drugs only last for 20 years and need to be taken out at the beginning of development so often have less than 10 years of exclusivity before others can copy it so the development costs have to be recouped asap. That is why drugs are so expensive Not because Big Pharma makes profits in the billions then?
|
|
|
Post by dyertribe on Nov 13, 2020 18:45:43 GMT
Yet another assumption. For every drug that comes to market tens of others fall by the wayside in the development process, whether it is at the first hurdle or in the final phase of trials. All these failures cost, clinical trials cost, dealing with all the stakeholders, governments, healthcare providers, costs. Patents on drugs only last for 20 years and need to be taken out at the beginning of development so often have less than 10 years of exclusivity before others can copy it so the development costs have to be recouped asap. That is why drugs are so expensive Not because Big Pharma makes profits in the billions then? Yes, they do make billions, they are not charities, without profit there would be no shareholders, no investment, no new drugs. Why do you think there are no new antibiotics? It’s because there is no profit to be made from them so no benefit to shareholders
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 13, 2020 18:56:31 GMT
Not because Big Pharma makes profits in the billions then? Yes, they do make billions, they are not charities, without profit there would be no shareholders, no investment, no new drugs. Why do you think there are no new antibiotics? It’s because there is no profit to be made from them so no benefit to shareholders Which is pretty much my point. Big Pharma has a vested interest in rolling out mass vaccination and whether or not it is the best way of dealing with a virus is neither here nor there, it's all about the benefit to shareholders. There have been coronaviruses for as long as we have had respiratory systems and we have developed a very efficient immune system to deal with them. My view is that the way to deal with Covid-19 is to quarantine the elderly and infirm and allow everybody else to contract and process it until it has run its course. You may disagree with this, but it is an entirely reasonable and rational viewpoint to hold, and the internet censoring on YouTube, Instagram etc of people holding this same view is not desirable in what is supposed to be a country with a tradition of free speech.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 19:41:09 GMT
400 of what? On average about 1500 die in the UK each week under normal circumstances. We still seem to be missing out another important factor in all of this. The Covid death figures are based on people being tested positive within a few weeks of the death. What is severely lacking is that the figures don't show to what degree Covid was a factor in the death. So if someone was killed in a road accident, they still get flagged as a Covid death if they were tested positive. We already know that the majority of people who contract Covid have no symptoms or mild symptoms. That still applies to those submitted to hospital for any reason. Ok lets go for number of people in hospital (due to covid) figures, would you be ok in thinking that is a better number to debate about? I think that's a better indicator. Hopefully the improvements we've seen in treatment will keep the death figures below what they were back in April where there was a notable surge in overal deaths for a few weeks according to the weekly ONS data (which I can't find anymore - just the more recent data!).
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 13, 2020 19:43:31 GMT
Ok lets go for number of people in hospital (due to covid) figures, would you be ok in thinking that is a better number to debate about? I think that's a better indicator. Hopefully the improvements we've seen in treatment will keep the death figures below what they were back in April where there was a notable surge in overal deaths for a few weeks according to the weekly ONS data (which I can't find anymore - just the more recent data!). My understanding is that hospital bed occupancy is at pretty much an identical level compared to this time last year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Antivax
Nov 13, 2020 19:51:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 19:51:50 GMT
I think that's a better indicator. Hopefully the improvements we've seen in treatment will keep the death figures below what they were back in April where there was a notable surge in overal deaths for a few weeks according to the weekly ONS data (which I can't find anymore - just the more recent data!). My understanding is that hospital bed occupancy is at pretty much an identical level compared to this time last year. I thought they were so overloaded that Wetherspoons pubs had been commandeered by the military.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Antivax
Nov 13, 2020 19:59:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 19:59:16 GMT
I think that's a better indicator. Hopefully the improvements we've seen in treatment will keep the death figures below what they were back in April where there was a notable surge in overal deaths for a few weeks according to the weekly ONS data (which I can't find anymore - just the more recent data!). My understanding is that hospital bed occupancy is at pretty much an identical level compared to this time last year. Have you got a link to last years NHS data and for April this year?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 20:01:56 GMT
Ok lets go for number of people in hospital (due to covid) figures, would you be ok in thinking that is a better number to debate about? I think that's a better indicator. Hopefully the improvements we've seen in treatment will keep the death figures below what they were back in April where there was a notable surge in overal deaths for a few weeks according to the weekly ONS data (which I can't find anymore - just the more recent data!). Number of people in hospital due to Covid is still rising, yes slowly. During the first wave the current numbers were only exceeded for about 3 weeks and that put a strain on the NHS staff. I'm not sure what the short term future is but hope the lockdown will bring down the numbers sufficiently for it to be lifted on 2nd Dec, but my view is that currently we are marking time with the lockdown (light) and that means no let up until vaccine or 'feck it we are beaten by this' kicks in.
Please don't mistake my thoughts to be what I'd like to happen.....
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 13, 2020 20:04:12 GMT
My understanding is that hospital bed occupancy is at pretty much an identical level compared to this time last year. I thought they were so overloaded that Wetherspoons pubs had been commandeered by the military. Not quite. Pubs have been closed and probably will be until Christmas and beyond but this is simply to prevent the lower orders from congregating and talking about what a load of old bollocks the Coronavirus hoax is. We in the military are currently busy training to break up Christmas Day family meals for pretty much the same reason. We had a discussion in Hereford today about our plan to abseil down a block of flats in Walsall where intelligence suggests that the householder, having been observed by an undercover operative to purchase two boxes of Christmas crackers this week, may be planning to breach the "Rule of Six".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Antivax
Nov 13, 2020 20:05:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 20:05:30 GMT
I thought crackers were in boxes of 6.
Maybe it's 8. That is serious shit if it's true.
Mention of Hereford always makes me think of tasty rump steak.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Antivax
Nov 13, 2020 20:14:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 20:14:27 GMT
Anyway, I doubt this lockdown will get extended over December as there is too much profit to be made by large corporations...and Boris promised....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Antivax
Nov 13, 2020 20:23:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 20:23:56 GMT
Anyway, I doubt this lockdown will get extended over December as there is too much profit to be made by large corporations...and Boris promised.... Who is going to make money over Christmas who isn't currently making money out of this? I'm sure it won't happen but it seems to be obvious to hit anyone who has benefited from this situation financially with a windfall tax of some sort. Inspect profits this year compared with last year, add a few checks and balances and hit those who have done very nicely for some cash to go into the government coffers. Nobody should benefit from this sort of shit. /naive mode off/
|
|
|
Post by patty on Nov 14, 2020 7:42:32 GMT
There are always those who reap financial benefit from any disaster....
From the self employed who've worked all the way through and still claimed the gov handout to the big men ripping off the millions in failed PPi supplies etc.... Those who really struggle are the ones who, whatever the disaster would always struggle. No-one ever said life had to be fair. However down here we do have on FB a Womans Swap Shop where everything is donated ..its free and the idea is for those who have very little to get stuff. I guess it doesn't stop those wanting to make money from selling it on but thats their choice. The kids are collecting for food banks from outside peoples houses. More and more here a Community is coming together and perhaps thats been the one good thing about this Pandemic in that people are really helping others. Maybe there is hope for the human race..or not.. Anyway enough of that...
I support the local shops and don't buy much online... As for Christmas..I won't break any rule of 6..my cottage would be crowded(I don't do crowds)..trying to think of a acceptable reason to avoid Christmas dinner up the road....the "I want to sit in front of the telly with my dog n a glass(or 2) of vino" not an acceptable excuse apparently. I don't like having to walk home alone, to come into a house with just me..though suppose this year there will be Freya
|
|