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Post by Andyberg on Mar 3, 2021 8:21:38 GMT
Looking at a converted Butty and see this strange hydraulic drive setup fitted.... ”The Beta 28hp engine is situated at the bow, There is a Hercules hydraulic drive and an Axiom propeller in the helm” Have you any idea how its supposed to work, could this be efficient only for ‘shunting’ around the marina etc? I Could understand a hydraulic box fitted inboard with a prop fitted thro back of boat but just cant fathom the pipes feeding from inside the boat over the tiller? Any ideas / clues?
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Post by JohnV on Mar 3, 2021 8:33:48 GMT
I think you will find the prop is fitted in a modified rudder
A suitable hydraulic motor is very small so the whole rudder assembly becomes like an "leg" system but still retains the ability to steer with the rudder when the drive is stopped
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Post by Andyberg on Mar 3, 2021 8:38:33 GMT
I think you will find the prop is fitted in a modified rudder
A suitable hydraulic motor is very small so the whole rudder assembly becomes like an "leg" system but still retains the ability to steer with the rudder when the drive is stopped
I presume you mean similar to a Z drive setup on inboard motored yoghurt pots? Would this system be reliable enough / structurally sufficient and easy enough to use with a fitted out 71ft 12/10/6 steel replica butty conversion?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 8:42:13 GMT
Seems like a great solution. But its not a rudder, it's an elum
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Post by JohnV on Mar 3, 2021 8:59:14 GMT
I think you will find the prop is fitted in a modified rudder
A suitable hydraulic motor is very small so the whole rudder assembly becomes like an "leg" system but still retains the ability to steer with the rudder when the drive is stopped
I presume you mean similar to a Z drive setup on inboard motored yoghurt pots? Would this system be reliable enough / structurally sufficient and easy enough to use with a fitted out 71ft 12/10/6 steel replica butty conversion? How robust would depend on the strength of the pintles and you would make them to do the job.
Hydraulic motors are extremely reliable and in many ways the whole thing is just like having a powerful outboard on the back but without the weight and complexity of an ic engine and gearbox.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 9:18:02 GMT
Hydraulic drive in itself inst an issue - plenty of broads cruisers use it to mount the engine away from the centre line in a locker giving more usable space - they still use a conventional stern gear through hull set up. The issue with the set up on that butty is as JohnV points out - how well the rudder/elum is attached to the boat along with how well the hydraulic motor is attached to said elum/rudder. The Axiom prop is a whole different kettle of worms, it isn't specifically needed for that type of drive system, all these years on I have never been able to get to the bottom of their claims, some swear by them having paid a lot of dollar to out a conventional prop - some swear at them having paid a lot of dollar to out a conventional prop. I seem to remember a bloke on CWDF had a converted butty on hydraulic drive - here it is here.... www.buttyhampton.com/undercloth-conversion-2005www.buttyhampton.com/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 9:31:39 GMT
Dont forget, the prop in the elum/rudder is due to the shape of the stern, a conventional counter stern narrowboat is a damn sit easier to poke the prop shaft through than a butty stern.
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Post by Andyberg on Mar 3, 2021 9:34:40 GMT
Excellent info thanks John &Gazza.... Hampton seems similar to what I’m looking at...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 9:50:56 GMT
Excellent info thanks John &Gazza.... Hampton seems similar to what I’m looking at... With the engine in the bow it will be nice and quite steering it - will confuse and irritate the shit out of the curtain twitching slow down brigade mind Obviously you loose bow storage space and there will be precious little at the stern, but on the plus side you'd gain a fair bit of cabin space at the rear of the boat. Does it have an LPG system? if so where are the cylinders? easy to get at or an utter balls ache to lug a cylinder in and out of its hole?
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Post by kris on Mar 3, 2021 10:02:15 GMT
Dont forget, the prop in the elum/rudder is due to the shape of the stern, a conventional counter stern narrowboat is a damn sit easier to poke the prop shaft through than a butty stern. what I don’t understand is if it’s a modern replica which Andy says it is. Why would you copy a work around that was done because of the traditional underwater shape of a butty?
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Post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel on Mar 3, 2021 10:07:25 GMT
I have seen a few of these butty conversions over the years, never steered one though. I have been told that they handle very well and are very manoeuvrable.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 10:11:10 GMT
Dont forget, the prop in the elum/rudder is due to the shape of the stern, a conventional counter stern narrowboat is a damn sit easier to poke the prop shaft through than a butty stern. what I don’t understand is if it’s a modern replica which Andy says it is. Why would you copy a work around that was done because of the traditional underwater shape of a butty? It always has seemed an odd way of doing things - I can see the point of a new unpowered butty boat for hotel boat pairs - more space in the butty due to lack of propulsion machinery; offset by the arse ache of dragging the thing about everywhere you go! On a new build motor boat as you say it makes limited sense, the only two i can think of i mentioned above. I guess looks must come into it, but seeing as narrowboats are pretty aesthetically challenged you'd have to talk hard and fast to convince me of that one Even old buttys the sensible thing to do is chop them in half and do a buy one get one free type job - i know the purists hate it but i'd not bat an eyelid a taking a torch to an old unpowered boat.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 10:12:02 GMT
Dont forget, the prop in the elum/rudder is due to the shape of the stern, a conventional counter stern narrowboat is a damn sit easier to poke the prop shaft through than a butty stern. what I don’t understand is if it’s a modern replica which Andy says it is. Why would you copy a work around that was done because of the traditional underwater shape of a butty? They are more boat shaped so swim better, handle better and they usually go like stink with minimal wash
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 10:23:48 GMT
www.herculeshydraulics.co.uk/index.php/products/drive-podssmall and according to the lower picture also used in conventional motor narrow boats. But I would rather use electric given the availability of small, effective and powerful pod motors. The hydraulic ones seem to hum a bit and it's not a very efficient power conversion. An electric butty with a part time generator and a Lithium battery bank sounds delightful.
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Post by bodger on Mar 3, 2021 11:59:55 GMT
the very long hydraulic hoses (or preferably rigid pipes) from the engine at the bow to the stern will result in significant loss of energy through pipe friction (just like very long leccy cables). Obviously the larger the pipe diameter the better. May not be an issue if the engine is adequately sized and you are not anal about wasted energy.
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