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Post by Telemachus on May 5, 2024 19:11:49 GMT
It is how ever worth bearing in mind that just because “we have always done it like that” doesn’t mean it is the best way to do it. The Tarleton lock is operated by Mayor's Boatyard, I wouldn't pretend to know a hundredth of what they do about local conditions but the ground crew are very friendly and helpful and I'd suggest you direct any questions you have towards them. As an example, on the day I did the northbound crossing, they were doing crossings in both directions as my crossing had been delayed twice by adverse weather. When I asked them why they didn't do bi-directional crossings as a matter of routine they said "Well we could, but it makes for a very long day". I suppose that as someone who pays his licence fee, I could have insisted on them working 13 hour shifts at my behest but I'm insufficiently arrogant and controlling to I suppose. Well it depends on who they are of course. Just because they work in a boatyard doesn’t necessarily mean they have the slightest idea what goes on outside the confines of their boatyard and the lock they operate. But they might. Who knows? I cite many “lock keepers” who have a fancy blue jacket and life jacket on but don’t really have any idea of what goes on beyond their tiny sphere of influence. So I am always happy to receive input, but needless to say I will be the one to decide how much credence I assign to any particular bit of input. So far this tactic has stood me in good stead.
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Post by on May 5, 2024 19:19:13 GMT
It is a good approach but one must always recognise ultracrepidarian slubberdegullions when they present themselves.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2024 19:29:12 GMT
The Tarleton lock is operated by Mayor's Boatyard, I wouldn't pretend to know a hundredth of what they do about local conditions but the ground crew are very friendly and helpful and I'd suggest you direct any questions you have towards them. As an example, on the day I did the northbound crossing, they were doing crossings in both directions as my crossing had been delayed twice by adverse weather. When I asked them why they didn't do bi-directional crossings as a matter of routine they said "Well we could, but it makes for a very long day". I suppose that as someone who pays his licence fee, I could have insisted on them working 13 hour shifts at my behest but I'm insufficiently arrogant and controlling to I suppose. Well it depends on who they are of course. Just because they work in a boatyard doesn’t necessarily mean they have the slightest idea what goes on outside the confines of their boatyard and the lock they operate. But they might. Who knows? I cite many “lock keepers” who have a fancy blue jacket and life jacket on but don’t really have any idea of what goes on beyond their tiny sphere of influence. So I am always happy to receive input, but needless to say I will be the one to decide how much credence I assign to any particular bit of input. So far this tactic has stood me in good stead. When you've done the Ribble Link, just come back to this thread and tell everybody who gave you the best advice. That's all I ask.
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Post by dogless on May 5, 2024 19:35:02 GMT
It's perhaps interesting but isn't it entirely irrelevant Telemachus ? Like booking the Liverpool Link, or doing Bingley Five Rise, it's C&RT who operate the system, and you have to go when they say and do what they do ... or choose not to of course. The first time we did Watford and Foxton locks it was winter and volunteers weren't a thing. We were alone and lived to tell the tale. These days you have to 'book in' with the volockies who seem to be ever present. I suppose it's their ball, their rules 😊 Rog
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Post by Telemachus on May 5, 2024 19:59:34 GMT
It's perhaps interesting but isn't it entirely irrelevant Telemachus ? Like booking the Liverpool Link, or doing Bingley Five Rise, it's C&RT who operate the system, and you have to go when they say and do what they do ... or choose not to of course. The first time we did Watford and Foxton locks it was winter and volunteers weren't a thing. We were alone and lived to tell the tale. These days you have to 'book in' with the volockies who seem to be ever present. I suppose it's their ball, their rules 😊 Rog Yes all part of the dumbing down of boating, but one doesn’t necessarily have to relish it. The first time I did Bingley 5 rise in the 1970s we just got on with it, after all it is just another staircase. Nobody died and no boats sank. Now of course they make a big meal out of it and you have to obey the orders or else be refused passage. Makes the lock keepers feel very important of course.
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Post by dogless on May 5, 2024 20:08:19 GMT
First time we went it was locked until the lovely Barry opened up.
Like it or not ... need the assistance or not, that's just how it was and is.
Rog
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2024 20:46:42 GMT
It's perhaps interesting but isn't it entirely irrelevant Telemachus ? Like booking the Liverpool Link, or doing Bingley Five Rise, it's C&RT who operate the system, and you have to go when they say and do what they do ... or choose not to of course. The first time we did Watford and Foxton locks it was winter and volunteers weren't a thing. We were alone and lived to tell the tale. These days you have to 'book in' with the volockies who seem to be ever present. I suppose it's their ball, their rules 😊 Rog The first time I did Bingley 5 rise in the 1970s we just got on with it, The first time I went to a shop in the 1970s I put half a crown on the counter and got a shilling, a tanner and a threepenny bit back. The world changes. You get on with it.
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Post by Telemachus on May 5, 2024 21:25:11 GMT
The first time I did Bingley 5 rise in the 1970s we just got on with it, The first time I went to a shop in the 1970s I put half a crown on the counter and got a shilling, a tanner and a threepenny bit back. The world changes. You get on with it. The world does change and one has to get on with it, however as I said one doesn’t have to relish it. Your example merely points to inflation and a change of currency, neither of which are impactful since in the case of inflation, whilst things do get more expensive, income also increases. And a change of coinage is just a trivial detail. A corollary to the dumbing down of boating would be if your 1970s trip to a shop allowed you to buy whatever you wanted to, but now in the 2020s you are not allowed to decide what to buy, you have to defer to someone else who will tell you what you can buy. But of course you haven’t been boating for long and so you don’t see any significant change.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2024 21:38:56 GMT
The first time I went to a shop in the 1970s I put half a crown on the counter and got a shilling, a tanner and a threepenny bit back. The world changes. You get on with it. But of course you haven’t been boating for long and so you don’t see any significant change. Oh, willy-waving! I'd bet the farm that I've done five times as much boating as someone who spends 95% of his life in an ex-council house in Aberdeen.
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Post by Trina on May 5, 2024 22:23:17 GMT
Well,we'll be going with our C&RT booked time-this will be our 3rd attempt.Number 1-big hole in canal,number 2-down to Tarleton & the weather was so bad they cancelled crossings.Due to tides,it would have been about 10 days later to go across.3rd time lucky we hope !
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Post by Tony Dunkley on May 6, 2024 6:23:46 GMT
Yes, I know you did, . . and my reply was in the same vein. But it really would be ironic if you end up being the boat that demonstrates the extent to which safe successful passage making, if done the crackpot amateurish C&RT way, is mainly dependent on sheer luck rather than long standing proven good practice. Well I have been boating nearly as long as you have, and spent over 10 years of family holidays in Cornwall in the 1960s and early 70s exploring the upper reaches of the tidal Fal estuary and its many tributaries in a motor-sailer with a keel, and learnt techniques such as using a transit, from my dad. So I think it is unlikely that I will be the one to come unstuck, especially bearing in mind the general incompetence of so many “born again” narrowboaters. Have seen some really stupid behaviour (massively cutting corners etc) on the tidal Trent from other boaters. So I am going to confidently say “it won’t be me”! (FLW). For example, I won’t be the one turning right before the Astland lamp!What about the tactic for going the other way - Savick to Tarlton? Is there a better way of doing that? The turn onto, or off, the Ribble at Astland Light/Five Mile Perch isn't the most likely place to come to grief, . . that's more likely when making the turn out of the river into Savick Brook. Following C&RT's crackpot scheduling means that all inbound boats invariably make the tricky turn in on the Ebb (falling tide) instead of on the Flood, . . which, because of the drying steep-to bank edges that cover on big tides there, is not only bad practice, but potentially very dangerous, . . as the skipper of this boat so ably demonstrated :- As for the return journey, there are other, better options for timing the run back down the Ribble and up the Douglas to Tarleton, . . but only for those with local knowledge, and comfortable with and experienced in working around tides in the lower reaches and estuaries of rivers such as the Ribble. Or with a local boatman or pilot* on board, or on an accompanying boat. NB. * Other than glider or helicopter pilots, . . obviously.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on May 6, 2024 8:42:53 GMT
Yes, I know you did, . . and my reply was in the same vein. But it really would be ironic if you end up being the boat that demonstrates the extent to which safe successful passage making, if done the crackpot amateurish C&RT way, is mainly dependent on sheer luck rather than long standing proven good practice. Well I have been boating nearly as long as you have, and spent over 10 years of family holidays in Cornwall in the 1960s and early 70s exploring the upper reaches of the tidal Fal estuary and its many tributaries in a motor-sailer with a keel, and learnt techniques such as using a transit, from my dad. So I think it is unlikely that I will be the one to come unstuck, especially bearing in mind the general incompetence of so many “born again” narrowboaters. Have seen some really stupid behaviour (massively cutting corners etc) on the tidal Trent from other boaters. So I am going to confidently say “it won’t be me”! (FLW). For example, I won’t be the one turning right before the Astland lamp! What about the tactic for going the other way - Savick to Tarlton? Is there a better way of doing that? That maybe so, . . but it was a very different sort of boating. By the age of twelve I was learning about what it takes to operate commercials, working round tides, on the Humber, Trent and the Ouse. It was hands-on practical experience from the decks and wheelhouses of slow underpowered motor barges, some with only 30 bhp 3-cylinder Listers, . . and some with up to 150 bhp, normally towing a minimum of two dumbs, each of 100 to 120 ton capacity, . . which made it rather important to make the best possible use of the tides and tide times. Some six years later, and I was working L&L Shortboats, with slightly less underowered 3-cylinder Listers, loading bagged chemicals overside from ships in Preston Docks, for delivery to ICI at Anderton. The economics of the job were very marginal, . . and wasting time in taking up one more tide than absolutely necessary on the Tarleton-Preston-Tarleton leg of the trip, in effect, added another whole day to the round trip, and swallowed up most of the profit. Which, I reckon, all in all, . . probably makes me one of the best qualified people there are to advise on tidal operations and passage scheduling, on the rivers Douglas and Ribble, between Tarleton and Preston, . . or between Tarleton and the new(ish) half-tide barrier in Savick Brook, just over half-a-mile up from the river outfall of this tidal land drainage watercourse, . . which itself is only a mile and a bit downriver of Preston Docks.
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Post by Telemachus on May 6, 2024 9:10:48 GMT
But of course you haven’t been boating for long and so you don’t see any significant change. Oh, willy-waving! I'd bet the farm that I've done five times as much boating as someone who spends 95% of his life in an ex-council house in Aberdeen. I’m sure that is correct, but it seems entirely irrelevant. Who is this person you speak of?
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 6, 2024 9:12:36 GMT
Well,we'll be going with our C&RT booked time-this will be our 3rd attempt.Number 1-big hole in canal,number 2-down to Tarleton & the weather was so bad they cancelled crossings.Due to tides,it would have been about 10 days later to go across.3rd time lucky we hope ! Gosh, you are very brave. It's a challenging enough crossing even when you are not double-bagged.
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Post by Telemachus on May 6, 2024 9:16:18 GMT
Well I have been boating nearly as long as you have, and spent over 10 years of family holidays in Cornwall in the 1960s and early 70s exploring the upper reaches of the tidal Fal estuary and its many tributaries in a motor-sailer with a keel, and learnt techniques such as using a transit, from my dad. So I think it is unlikely that I will be the one to come unstuck, especially bearing in mind the general incompetence of so many “born again” narrowboaters. Have seen some really stupid behaviour (massively cutting corners etc) on the tidal Trent from other boaters. So I am going to confidently say “it won’t be me”! (FLW). For example, I won’t be the one turning right before the Astland lamp! What about the tactic for going the other way - Savick to Tarlton? Is there a better way of doing that?Yes, there are other, better options for timing the run back down the Ribble and up the Douglas to Tarleton, . . but only for those with local knowledge, and comfortable with and experienced in working around tides in the lower reaches and estuaries of rivers such as the Ribble. Or with a local boatman or pilot* on board, or on an accompanying boat. NB. * Other than glider or helicopter pilots, . . obviously. So what you are saying I think is that the tactic that CRT espouse for the southbound trip is the only practically feasible one for pleasure boats, since requiring a local pilot would be costly and possible unfeasible because there may not actually be any local pilots hanging around waiting for some narrowboaters to employ them.
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