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Post by Tony Dunkley on Apr 14, 2024 21:37:44 GMT
It's relevant cos it's fact. Rog What about the 'fact' that you're such an fanatical supporter of a knife wielding psychopathic internet stalking nutter who's much closer to home. Your on-line stalking buddy Vince ' Mr Stabby' Coventon ?
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Post by fi on Apr 14, 2024 21:41:21 GMT
Man, male, guy, gentleman, bloke, fella, chap, geezer ... we can choose whichever, they all mean the same. I realise it's difficult to grasp but you'll get there ... I believe in you 👍🏻 Rog So I'd be ok to refer to the police woman as a police bird...
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Post by dogless on Apr 14, 2024 21:44:01 GMT
Man, male, guy, gentleman, bloke, fella, chap, geezer ... we can choose whichever, they all mean the same. I realise it's difficult to grasp but you'll get there ... I believe in you 👍🏻 Rog So I'd be ok to refer to the police woman as a police bird... Are you asking for permission, approval, or some other reason ? Rog
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Post by dogless on Apr 14, 2024 21:46:20 GMT
Okay if that's what you think. I think that someone running into an area that everyone panicking and terrified is running from ... a chaotic scene where multiple reports are describing death and assault ... to enter that area alone to try and help is extremely brave. To confront a person who's killed and injured others without knowing what weapons or explosives may be on the person other than an obvious machete, and then remain controlled enough to take appropriate action is very brave. To then remain and try to save that person's life whilst unsure if they're acting alone, or whether bombs have been planted and about to detonate, is very brave. The sex of the person is irrelevant to the bravery demonstrated. We are beginning to get a clear idea of what happened now. The officer had none of that clarity but demonstrated personal courage. Had the officer remained on 'standby' at the entrance awaiting other officers, the officer would not have been criticised. Rog If the sex of the person is irrelevant, why do you keep on mentioning it? Where did I mention it above ? Rog
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Post by fi on Apr 14, 2024 21:46:50 GMT
So I'd be ok to refer to the police woman as a police bird... Are you asking for permission, approval, or some other reason ? Rog Just out of interest really, I wouldn't consider it to be ok.
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Post by dogless on Apr 14, 2024 21:54:55 GMT
I don't believe I have used the term.
Rog
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Post by fi on Apr 14, 2024 22:05:25 GMT
I don't believe I have used the term. Rog If that was in reply to me, I wasn't saying you had or even might do so - it was more of a general question about what terms are ok, made because you said a gentleman means the same as geezer. I disagree with that. Off to bed now, hopefully I've not annoyed you too much, just trying to understand why you use words that I find patronising to women.
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 14, 2024 22:30:58 GMT
Okay if that's what you think. I think that someone running into an area that everyone panicking and terrified is running from ... a chaotic scene where multiple reports are describing death and assault ... to enter that area alone to try and help is extremely brave. To confront a person who's killed and injured others without knowing what weapons or explosives may be on the person other than an obvious machete, and then remain controlled enough to take appropriate action is very brave. To then remain and try to save that person's life whilst unsure if they're acting alone, or whether bombs have been planted and about to detonate, is very brave. The sex of the person is irrelevant to the bravery demonstrated. We are beginning to get a clear idea of what happened now. The officer had none of that clarity but demonstrated personal courage. Had the officer remained on 'standby' at the entrance awaiting other officers, the officer would not have been criticised. Rog Well I think that if it is your profession to be an armed police officer, and you have had a load of training in how to carry out your profession, it would be pretty odd if you were armed with a gun, in the vicinity of someone who had not used a gun (you could tell from the absence of gunshot sound) but was otherwise causing mayhem, but ran away. I would go so far as to say it would be pretty despicable. I have never killed anyone and rarely fired a gun - certainly never pointed at anyone - but I know the power of training. Untrained people allow their “chimp brains” to rule their behaviour in times of stress - the fight or flight instinct, which prefers flight if it is possible. This is why people tend to run around screaming hysterically instead of forming a cool and rational plan of escape from danger. All that screaming and hysteria simply makes them better targets and so is counter-productive. Trained people learn that staying cool and logical in times of stress, leads to better outcomes. aka staying alive! Being a professional helicopter pilot flying 19 passengers hundreds of miles offshore to a lump of metal somewhere out there, is 99.99% boring. But just occasionally when things go wrong, it is vital to stay cool as the stress builds, and you obtain that ability from training. So I don’t think it is at all surprising or remarkable that the police officer quickly worked out that she had a likely massive advantage over the knife man, walked up to him, pulled out her gun and shot him, just like in the movie. This will not have been an event that caused her to “freak out and scream like a girl” as would have happened if she had been some members of this forum that I could think of, who have never really had to deal with real danger in their lives. It being no particularly big deal, her training will have kicked in after the shooting, the next step being to try to keep the bugger alive so he can face justice in court and prison, and not take the easy way out. And the paperwork would have been less tiresome if he had remained alive, no doubt.
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Post by Aloysius on Apr 14, 2024 22:45:04 GMT
The lady officer showed tremendous courage to run towards the area everyone was running from. It is clear her decisive action saved further lives. Rog Have you seen the Indiana Jones film scene where the big bad black man comes towards Indy with a huge machete? Indy grins, pulls out a gun and shoots the big bloke stone dead. So no I don’t think the police lady showed tremendous courage. She had a massive advantage over the knife man (her gun) and the training to go with it. It would have been a no brainer. i have to say that I suspect that you and others think she showed “tremendous courage” only because she was a member of the (allegedly) weaker sex. Which if correct is somewhat patronising! This scene happened because Harrison was feeling tired after several takes so he asked if he could just shoot him instead.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Apr 14, 2024 22:47:10 GMT
If the sex of the person is irrelevant, why do you keep on mentioning it? Where did I mention it above ? Rog I suspect the truth of this is that you think it's really admirable that a woman should show the courage required to face up to a knife wielding maniac, and shoot him dead. That's why you made a point of stating the sex/ gender of the police officer who pulled the trigger. The reality is, if my hunch is correct, that your attitude is patronising to women. Police officers, be they men or women, are trained to the same level/ standard. There should be no expectation of different levels of bravery from the respective sexes/genders.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 15, 2024 6:31:36 GMT
Where did I mention it above ? Rog I suspect the truth of this is that you think it's really admirable that a woman should show the courage required to face up to a knife wielding maniac, and shoot him dead. That's why you made a point of stating the sex/ gender of the police officer who pulled the trigger. The reality is, if my hunch is correct, that your attitude is patronising to women. Police officers, be they men or women, are trained to the same level/ standard. There should be no expectation of different levels of bravery from the respective sexes/genders. I think it's probably more that in the UK at least, a significant majority of armed response officers are male and that anything which deviates from the standard does tend to attract comment.
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Post by dogless on Apr 15, 2024 8:02:00 GMT
Little point in me responding as Clinton Cool has 'by hunch' fully explained all my inner thoughts ... how clever. It's impossible to discuss with someone who TELLS you what you mean and think 😁 I would have thought Telemachus would have been aware that training is excellent, but without the elements of jeopardy and chaos it is mere simulation. Step into the real world and (whilst training should now prove its worth) palms sweat, pulse races, breathing becomes shallower and of course 'everyone has a plan until punched in the nose'. Controlling the 'chimp brain' becomes a reality not a line from a book. The officer's actions were very brave in my view. You disagree, but I think we'll both cope with that. fi can I just point out virtually every public toilet I have seen uses Gentlemen and Ladies to indicate which one you should choose ... it's not a status thing just an identifier. I don't think choice of term is patronising to anyone, it's simply a synonym for female along with lady, girl, lass, lassie, Colleen, wife, gal, sister, Sheila, Judy, Broad, maid, maiden, damsel and gentlewoman to name a few. Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 15, 2024 8:16:19 GMT
I would have thought Telemachus would have been aware that training is excellent, but without the elements of jeopardy and chaos it is mere simulation. Step into the real world and (whilst training should now prove its worth) palms sweat, pulse races, breathing becomes shallower and of course 'everyone has a plan until punched in the nose'. You seem to be implying that training doesn’t work if the situation being trained for is stressful/scary. If that were true, training would be pretty pointless. But it does work. And let us bear in mind that this won’t have been her first rodeo. Yes it could be the case that as a rookie cop having undergone basic training, her first encounter with a violent or potentially violent bloke might have been scary and might have pushed her close to chimp brain taking over. But no doubt she has been in similar scenarios in terms of her personal risk, many times before. It was all fairly routine and she was just doing the job she has been well trained to do.
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Post by fi on Apr 15, 2024 8:29:55 GMT
fi can I just point out virtually every public toilet I have seen uses Gentlemen and Ladies to indicate which one you should choose ... it's not a status thing just an identifier. I don't think choice of term is patronising to anyone, it's simply a synonym for female along with lady, girl, lass, lassie, Colleen, wife, gal, sister, Sheila, Judy, Broad, maid, maiden, damsel and gentlewoman to name a few. Rog I have no problem with using the term Ladies and Gentlemen. I just wouldn't use the term Lady in a situation where I wouldn't use the term Gentleman for the opposite sex. My first post on this highlighted this.
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Post by dogless on Apr 15, 2024 8:30:07 GMT
Can't disagree with any of that TelemachusAn officer's training would have suggested they wait for assistance and support before entering the area of danger. This officer went forward alone to confront the danger. I find that action commendable and very brave. Rog
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