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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 5:45:09 GMT
Sorry this is like drawing teeth Do you think the SNP are as credible in Power as anyone else or do they lack credibility,can they deliver a credible strategy for Scotland while remaining part of the UK,do you think we are being carried away on Nationalist Euphoria,how long before a credible alternative arrives and who is that likely to be, without major private investment in jobs and an over reliance on the Public sector where will future prosperity come from. These are all pertaining to Scotland as is Today.I don't buy any of that anti English rubbish its just media garbage in my opinion,I have never met an Englishman anywhere that said he was badly treated in Scotland lest perhaps some gentle banter in a pub. Oh, right, so you want to know what I think of the SNP's ability to govern Scotland? Well a government is the sum of its members (note I said a government, not a party) and as far as that goes they seem as able as any other, and rather better than Scottish Labour when they were in power. But they have this albatross of independence around their necks, which is distracting them from getting on with the job in hand. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP Westminster MPs though - I don't even see the point of them, and they certainly haven't distinguished themselves.
As regards major private investment in industry and jobs, that realistically can only come from abroad these days, not only Europe but the rest of the world. Potential investors will be looking on in horror at the possibility of the UK including Scotland tearing itself away from the rest of Europe.
Thanks for that,its pretty similar to my own thoughts to be honest until the last paragraph,I think potential investors could easily take the opposite view depending on what the landscape looks like post Brexit
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 5:52:07 GMT
Oh, right, so you want to know what I think of the SNP's ability to govern Scotland? Well a government is the sum of its members (note I said a government, not a party) and as far as that goes they seem as able as any other, and rather better than Scottish Labour when they were in power. But they have this albatross of independence around their necks, which is distracting them from getting on with the job in hand. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP Westminster MPs though - I don't even see the point of them, and they certainly haven't distinguished themselves.
As regards major private investment in industry and jobs, that realistically can only come from abroad these days, not only Europe but the rest of the world. Potential investors will be looking on in horror at the possibility of the UK including Scotland tearing itself away from the rest of Europe.
I suspect the reason we are in the do dah at the moment is far to much foreign investment the sort that comes buys and takes it away!! and all the jobs with it!! We have some great ideas then as if by magic they are being produced in another country. The EU is so corrupt that by the time it reacts its to late and another industry is down the pan.Germany at the moment is building coal fired power stations to burn brown coal, apparently they wont push up their co2 emissions? a bit like the VW scandal no country in the EU is doing a thing about it and the yanks well if VW promises to build some factories there they will shove it under the carpet too. The reason we should leave is because slowly but surely our country is being eroded and we will have nothing You raise some great points Peter,how can Germany continue to burn coal on the scale it does and also maintain a Steel Industry and why aren't some of our Great Business Names protected as "cornerstone industries".As I have said before,you would never see foreign ownership of VW, Mercedes or BMW or for that matter Renault or Citroen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 5:56:14 GMT
Sorry this is like drawing teeth Do you think the SNP are as credible in Power as anyone else or do they lack credibility,can they deliver a credible strategy for Scotland while remaining part of the UK,do you think we are being carried away on Nationalist Euphoria,how long before a credible alternative arrives and who is that likely to be, without major private investment in jobs and an over reliance on the Public sector where will future prosperity come from. These are all pertaining to Scotland as is Today.I don't buy any of that anti English rubbish its just media garbage in my opinion,I have never met an Englishman anywhere that said he was badly treated in Scotland lest perhaps some gentle banter in a pub. Oh, right, so you want to know what I think of the SNP's ability to govern Scotland? Well a government is the sum of its members (note I said a government, not a party) and as far as that goes they seem as able as any other, and rather better than Scottish Labour when they were in power. But they have this albatross of independence around their necks, which is distracting them from getting on with the job in hand. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP Westminster MPs though - I don't even see the point of them, and they certainly haven't distinguished themselves.
As regards major private investment in industry and jobs, that realistically can only come from abroad these days, not only Europe but the rest of the world. Potential investors will be looking on in horror at the possibility of the UK including Scotland tearing itself away from the rest of Europe.
When you talk about Europe,why can Germany maintain a Steel Industry and build Coal Fired Power Stations when we in Britain apparently can't. Is it down to poor Government in Britain or the Economic Might of Germany allowing it to run roughshod over the rest of Europe
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Post by Higgs on Jun 2, 2016 8:32:04 GMT
As regards major private investment in industry and jobs, that realistically can only come from abroad these days, not only Europe but the rest of the world. Potential investors will be looking on in horror at the possibility of the UK including Scotland tearing itself away from the rest of Europe.
I'm wondering if the above is a vote of no confidence in Scotland, a vote of no confidence in the UK and a vote of confidence in the EU to change that.
These jobs that you mention being created they're not, if they are created, going to be preserved for the Scots. The financial players have already lead us down a path of massive debt, after over four decades of European union. If being a member of the UK has undermined the Scottish identity, and alot of Scots think it has, how is it going to be possible to be more recognised by being a non-country within a big soup.
I'm not with the pragmatic economic arguments. If the national Scottish vote goes with Remain, there's absolutely no way Scottish independence will be worth a bag of manure. Almost meaningless, just an exercise in futile expression.
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Post by peterboat on Jun 2, 2016 8:45:41 GMT
ALEXAKOSAlex 9m
you think? Thr EU is fallng apart and the Brexit will be the final tug. But when you have a splinter ist best you pull it out fast so the healing can begin.
Get out UK!!
The latest from Alex my Greek forum friend things are really shit over there
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Post by naughtyfox on Jun 2, 2016 14:03:34 GMT
NaughtyFox likes this:
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Post by PaulG2 on Jun 3, 2016 0:55:02 GMT
Haven't the Greeks made it pretty clear that the Greeks have their own problems and that the refugees will be accommodated temporarily, but only temporarily? The EU is insane if they allow Turkey admission, if for no other reason than it is now a dictatorship in everything but name. Turkey has always been more a part of the ME, anyway. I see that Erdogan is now really pissed off at Germany because Germany today recognized the Armenian genocide as a genocide and that has Erdogan's panties all bunched up tightly around his balls. (For all you gurlz, that's not a good thing.) It would be good to see Germany and Turkey in a pissing match, especially if it pits Merkel against their admission.
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Post by macwolfelee on Jun 3, 2016 10:37:29 GMT
As regards major private investment in industry and jobs, that realistically can only come from abroad these days, not only Europe but the rest of the world. Potential investors will be looking on in horror at the possibility of the UK including Scotland tearing itself away from the rest of Europe.
I'm wondering if the above is a vote of no confidence in Scotland, a vote of no confidence in the UK and a vote of confidence in the EU to change that.
These jobs that you mention being created they're not, if they are created, going to be preserved for the Scots. The financial players have already lead us down a path of massive debt, after over four decades of European union. If being a member of the UK has undermined the Scottish identity, and alot of Scots think it has, how is it going to be possible to be more recognised by being a non-country within a big soup.
I'm not with the pragmatic economic arguments. If the national Scottish vote goes with Remain, there's absolutely no way Scottish independence will be worth a bag of manure. Almost meaningless, just an exercise in futile expression.
I have a moderate amount of confidence in the UK including Scotland outside the EU. I think we would survive but be rather poorer and be far less able to influence world events.
I have much less confidence in the future of the rest of the EU without us, and that is what concerns me. I care about Europe.
I'm not concerned about jobs being reserved for Scots. Why should I be?
I agree about the massive debt, but this is a consequence of successive UK Government policies and any financial players were in the City of London, as the foremost financial centre.
I don't think the UK ever undermined Scottish identity, any more than the EU has undermined UK identity. Being within 'a big soup' does not destroy a region's identity.
Your final paragraph makes no sense. The SNP's official policy is to remain in the EU. If the Scottish vote to remain in the EU, but the rest of the UK votes Out, then many people think that Scottish independence will be more likely, not less.
BTW, I've not seen any info as to whether the vote will be reported region by region, or overall. What if Wales votes 'In' but is outnumbered by England, for example?
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Post by Higgs on Jun 3, 2016 16:00:29 GMT
I'm not with the pragmatic economic arguments. If the national Scottish vote goes with Remain, there's absolutely no way Scottish independence will be worth a bag of manure. Almost meaningless, just an exercise in futile expression.
Your final paragraph makes no sense. The SNP's official policy is to remain in the EU. If the Scottish vote to remain in the EU, but the rest of the UK votes Out, then many people think that Scottish independence will be more likely, not less.
BTW, I've not seen any info as to whether the vote will be reported region by region, or overall. What if Wales votes 'In' but is outnumbered by England, for example?
Yes, I know the SNP are backing Remain. It is well known that should the vote on the EU go in favour of Brexit, the Scottish independence vote will be on the table again, as far as the SNP are concerned. My opinion is that independence is totally the opposite to what Scotland would have, being in the EU. Scotland would have its own sovereignty, for what it would be worth. It seems like it would be an ironic situation to have gained independence then become subservient to another parliament in the EU.
You would be independent from the rest of the UK. You'd be up to your earholes in EU bureaucracy; what would that do to your sense of independence.
Voting region to region will not officially be marked, but no doubt, people will try and split the voting. It was suggested that a regional recognition of votes be made, but was turned down. "We're all in this together" as the UK.
I'm hoping that just as many in Scotland who voted no to the independence vote will vote Brexit; and more.
"I'm not concerned about jobs being reserved for Scots. Why should I be?" How would that sound coming from an Englishman, a Romanian or a Polish person.
Well, there's certainly no place for discrimination. Remaining could though lead to fewer available jobs for the Scots in Scotland. Are you going to suggest they have the whole of the EU to pick, to try for a jobs vacancy. I know Scots do travel, I've met a fair few, but alot would choose to stay put, in Scotland. I don't think it's really a good idea to close down that option by reducing the jobs vacancies.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 16:15:14 GMT
ALEXAKOSAlex 9m you think? Thr EU is fallng apart and the Brexit will be the final tug. But when you have a splinter ist best you pull it out fast so the healing can begin. Get out UK!! The latest from Alex my Greek forum friend things are really shit over there I love these little ditties of Peters,theres a Monty Python Sketch there somewhere,
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 16:21:01 GMT
Your final paragraph makes no sense. The SNP's official policy is to remain in the EU. If the Scottish vote to remain in the EU, but the rest of the UK votes Out, then many people think that Scottish independence will be more likely, not less.
BTW, I've not seen any info as to whether the vote will be reported region by region, or overall. What if Wales votes 'In' but is outnumbered by England, for example?
Yes, I know the SNP are backing Remain. It is well known that should the vote on the EU go in favour of Brexit, the Scottish independence vote will be on the table again, as far as the SNP are concerned. My opinion is that independence is totally the opposite to what Scotland would have, being in the EU. Scotland would have its own sovereignty, for what it would be worth. It seems like it would be an ironic situation to have gained independence then become subservient to another parliament in the EU.
You would be independent from the rest of the UK. You'd be up to your earholes in EU bureaucracy; what would that do to your sense of independence.
Voting region to region will not officially be marked, but no doubt, people will try and split the voting. It was suggested that a regional recognition of votes be made, but was turned down. "We're all in this together" as the UK.
I'm hoping that just as many in Scotland who voted no to the independence vote will vote Brexit; and more.
"I'm not concerned about jobs being reserved for Scots. Why should I be?" How would that sound coming from an Englishman, a Romanian or a Polish person.
Well, there's certainly no place for discrimination. Remaining could though lead to fewer available jobs for the Scots in Scotland. Are you going to suggest they have the whole of the EU to pick, to try for a jobs vacancy. I know Scots do travel, I've met a fair few, but alot would choose to stay put, in Scotland. I don't think it's really a good idea to close down that option by reducing the jobs vacancies.
Can I tell you about this threatened Independence Referendum Higgs,forget it because its an empty threat,Scotland in our lifetime will never vote for Independence because there is no Economic Case to be made for it.They are not stupid.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 20:07:27 GMT
Well I thought Michael Gove won the verdict tonight on SKY,a triumph of hope over adversity.
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Post by macwolfelee on Jun 3, 2016 21:02:18 GMT
I'm hoping that just as many in Scotland who voted no to the independence vote will vote Brexit; and more.
You're just as inconsistent as the SNP, but in the opposite direction! You want Scots to vote no to independence from the UK, but yes to independence from the EU.
I seem to be the only one whose views are consistent and logical: no independence from anybody. UNITED WE STAND; DIVIDED WE FALL. Now where did I hear that?
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Post by Higgs on Jun 3, 2016 22:51:59 GMT
I'm hoping that just as many in Scotland who voted no to the independence vote will vote Brexit; and more.
You're just as inconsistent as the SNP, but in the opposite direction! You want Scots to vote no to independence from the UK, but yes to independence from the EU.
I seem to be the only one whose views are consistent and logical: no independence from anybody. UNITED WE STAND; DIVIDED WE FALL. Now where did I hear that?
We're voting as the UK now. Ok, the Scots didn't feel confident about their economic prospects to go it alone and take their independence. That doesn't mean the Scots don't want independence. It was a close vote at the time of the independence vote.
There is a difference between being attached to the UK for economic reasons and also being attached to the EU. If the Scots vote to Remain, the chances of independence would be pushed way into the distance. Voting Brexit would allow some extension to Scotland's economic prospects through UK union without being too much out on a limb. If the UK retains its independence and votes Brexit, Scotland would keep some prospect of independence alive. Voting remain will kill it.
And I repeat my quote of your previous post.
"I'm not concerned about jobs being reserved for Scots. Why should I be?" How would that sound coming from an Englishman, a Romanian or a Polish person?
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Post by macwolfelee on Jun 4, 2016 8:19:37 GMT
We're voting as the UK now. Ok, the Scots didn't feel confident about their economic prospects to go it alone and take their independence. That doesn't mean the Scots don't want independence. It was a close vote at the time of the independence vote.
There is a difference between being attached to the UK for economic reasons and also being attached to the EU. If the Scots vote to Remain, the chances of independence would be pushed way into the distance. Voting Brexit would allow some extension to Scotland's economic prospects through UK union without being too much out on a limb. If the UK retains its independence and votes Brexit, Scotland would keep some prospect of independence alive. Voting remain will kill it.
And I repeat my quote of your previous post.
"I'm not concerned about jobs being reserved for Scots. Why should I be?" How would that sound coming from an Englishman, a Romanian or a Polish person?
I'm going to have to appeal to someone to interpret the thinking behind all that. Genuinely, any logic or relevance completely escapes me, even allowing for a different point of view.
As to your repeated last line, well it wouldn't sound very good coming from any of those nationalities, but coming from me it indicates an international outlook, which is sadly lacking in this country.
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