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Post by kris on May 28, 2018 11:01:19 GMT
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Post by peterboat on May 28, 2018 11:21:34 GMT
If I am honest Kris I am surprised its taken them this long to address the London problem, but once again people like yourself and many others will suffer for a problem that doesnt exist up in the North, other than a few honey pots. I actually thought that if they had any sense the new low emission zone in London would have sorted out the mess if it gets applied to boats, it would have been simple give visitors 2 weeks home moorers only pay for pollution when cruising and the rest £12.50 a day whilst they are in the zone! would have soon cleared out the problem....................more than likely up here though!!
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Post by kris on May 28, 2018 11:30:36 GMT
I think the reason it's taken so long to address the situation in London, is that it's going to be an ideal way to change the primary legislation. It is well know that there are certain elements within Bw/cart that want every boat to have to have a mooring. This is what the 1995 waterways act proposed before a few boaters opposed it and got the provision for boats without home moorings included. As you say there have been plenty of opurtuniities and ways to address the situation in London, it's not like it's suddenly happened. But cart can't propose changes to the primary waterways legislation, but defra can especially if it came as a solution to a "problem" from such a group as written about in the article. As you say it will effect all boaters adversly in the end.
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Post by Telemachus on May 28, 2018 12:26:40 GMT
I think it will be easy to justify banning live aboards in London, or at least to control the numbers, and probably inevitable. Much harder to justify banning liveaboards throughout the country, can’t see why that would happen any time soon when there is such a housing crisis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 13:00:05 GMT
I think it will be easy to justify banning live aboards in London, or at least to control the numbers, and probably inevitable. Much harder to justify banning liveaboards throughout the country, can’t see why that would happen any time soon when there is such a housing crisis. I just think it’s funny that many of those who whinge about live aboards wouldn’t live on a boat anyway because their missus wouldn’t have it. (sorry, should I have said partners Nick?). I compromised with mine and hence put up with some flowers on the roof. I’m with you on the silly idea of rolling out a local solution to the whole country. I made that point to Mr Parry a couple of years ago. To be fair, I’m 6 years into this lifestyle and can’t really complain too much. We are hoping to head through London in July for the K&A a second time. It will be interesting to see how things have changed. I’m betting one thing though. The condition of the locks around Hemel/Berko won’t have got any better (due to funding!).
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Post by bargemast on May 28, 2018 13:17:02 GMT
That does not sound very promissing at all, this has been caused for a big part (if not completely) by the hard-core piss-takers.
All the others are punished for the bad attitude of these short sighted fools.
Peter.
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Post by kris on May 28, 2018 13:20:54 GMT
That does not sound very promissing at all, this has been caused for a big part (if not completely) by the hard-core piss-takers.
All the others are punished for the bad attitude of these short sighted fools.
Peter.
Whilst undoubtedly there are some piss takers I think these are in the minority and could have easily been sorted out by cart. But it's more of a dislike of livaboard boaters in general that motivates cart in my opinion.
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Post by Telemachus on May 28, 2018 13:26:31 GMT
That does not sound very promissing at all, this has been caused for a big part (if not completely) by the hard-core piss-takers.
All the others are punished for the bad attitude of these short sighted fools.
Peter.
Part of the trouble with the “short sighted fools” is that I get the impression that many aren’t that interested in boating, they just want cheap accommodation. (I’m talking about London boaters). If that source of cheap accommodation dries up they'll just move on to the next easiest thing. They won’t miss their boats other than for financial reasons. Contrary to popular belief I have nothing against live aboards provided they don’t take the piss and share nicely (which most do). At one stage I thought it would be nice to retire onto the boat but I’ve come to the conclusion that I have too many other hobbies and interests to make that viable - I need too much space, and to be located within reach of the gliding club. So I’ll stick with a couple of months on the cut in summer, and plenty of weekends and the odd few weeks the rest of the year. Best of both worlds!
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Post by Telemachus on May 28, 2018 13:28:57 GMT
That does not sound very promissing at all, this has been caused for a big part (if not completely) by the hard-core piss-takers.
All the others are punished for the bad attitude of these short sighted fools.
Peter.
Whilst undoubtedly there are some piss takers I think these are in the minority and could have easily been sorted out by cart. But it's more of a dislike of livaboard boaters in general that motivates cart in my opinion. Do you have any evidence to support your opinion? I know numerous live-aboard CCers and none feel it’s “them vs CRT”.
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Post by kris on May 28, 2018 13:34:43 GMT
Whilst undoubtedly there are some piss takers I think these are in the minority and could have easily been sorted out by cart. But it's more of a dislike of livaboard boaters in general that motivates cart in my opinion. Do you have any evidence to support your opinion? I know numerous live-aboard CCers and none feel it’s “them vs CRT”. I thought you where ignoring me? I much prefere it when you do.
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Post by Telemachus on May 28, 2018 13:48:14 GMT
Do you have any evidence to support your opinion? I know numerous live-aboard CCers and none feel it’s “them vs CRT”. I thought you where ignoring me? I much prefere it when you do. Too bad! Anyway, thank you for explaining that you have no evidence, just an overwhelming sense of paranoia. But I knew that anyway!
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Post by kris on May 28, 2018 13:57:41 GMT
Jog on Nick
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Post by JohnV on May 28, 2018 13:58:38 GMT
That does not sound very promissing at all, this has been caused for a big part (if not completely) by the hard-core piss-takers.
All the others are punished for the bad attitude of these short sighted fools.
Peter.
Whilst undoubtedly there are some piss takers I think these are in the minority and could have easily been sorted out by cart. But it's more of a dislike of livaboard boaters in general that motivates cart in my opinion. I think "in the minority" is correct if you take it nationally, however in certain restricted areas I suspect they come close to being the majority. The problem is that there are groups who are very vocal about the "problem of liveaboards" where what they actually mean is the problem in very specific areas. It is the same with the widebeam "problem" There is no getting away from the fact that on some canals in some areas a very fat, fat boat is a total PITA for other boaters but hardly one in a canal built for 500 ton barges The fear is that yet again, in response to certain vocal interest groups a draconian national response will hit the innocent who are quietly and peacefully, continuous cruising without causing problems for anyone. I remember (5 years ago?) in the other place saying London was a growing problem and if it was not jumped on early, it was going to spiral and cause massive problems. I remember very clearly the general reaction ........ it seems that people look at the writing on the wall and just think it's grafiti
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Post by bargemast on May 28, 2018 14:00:10 GMT
That does not sound very promissing at all, this has been caused for a big part (if not completely) by the hard-core piss-takers.
All the others are punished for the bad attitude of these short sighted fools.
Peter.
Part of the trouble with the “short sighted fools” is that I get the impression that many aren’t that interested in boating, they just want cheap accommodation. (I’m talking about London boaters). If that source of cheap accommodation dries up they'll just move on to the next easiest thing. They won’t miss their boats other than for financial reasons. Contrary to popular belief I have nothing against live aboards provided they don’t take the piss and share nicely (which most do). At one stage I thought it would be nice to retire onto the boat but I’ve come to the conclusion that I have too many other hobbies and interests to make that viable - I need too much space, and to be located within reach of the gliding club. So I’ll stick with a couple of months on the cut in summer, and plenty of weekends and the odd few weeks the rest of the year. Best of both worlds! You are free to do what you want, and you're lucky enough to have the choice, or in your case many choices, but the idea of needing space is mainly in our heads
I think,stupidly that I need lot's of space too, something I haven't got, that's why it has become impossible to move around on the boat I live (survive) on, and waste my 600 euro retirement on 2 rented lock ups that are bursting with all sort of stuff.
Nowadays I'm reading lots of vlogs of people that manage to get rid of everything and down-scaled so much that they can happily travel around, wherever they want to go in smallish converted vans, with all their possessions included, and they all say that they're much happier now than in the big houses they owned before, or were still paying for working 3 jobs to pay for the luxioury of never having time to enjoy their houses.
That may be a bit extreme, but it may help to get used to the space where we're all going to end up in one day.
I only hope that that day will be far away, and that I manage in the meantime to reduce drasticly in the amount of stuff I don't need to live, and have a chance for at least a couple of years before they lay me down in the (I hope) cardboard box, that will be burned in a jiffy, without too much pollution.
Peter.
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Post by kris on May 28, 2018 14:09:11 GMT
Whilst undoubtedly there are some piss takers I think these are in the minority and could have easily been sorted out by cart. But it's more of a dislike of livaboard boaters in general that motivates cart in my opinion. I remember (5 years ago?) in the other place saying London was a growing problem and if it was not jumped on early, it was going to spiral and cause massive problems. I remember very clearly the general reaction ........ it seems that people look at the writing on the wall and just think it's grafiti Exactly cart have had 5years to deal with the issues in London and haven't. It wouldn't have changed the underlying legislation if they had done it with the powers they already have, so why not use it as a way of getting legislation altered to grab more power for yourselves as an organisation? The good thing is that more and more boaters are seeing through carts bullshit, the apologists for cart are becoming the minority.
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