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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 4, 2020 7:13:23 GMT
Looked up the EPC of the place I'm buying, it has granite walls. 31 sq m floor area, the estimate for heating cost is £1100 a year with gas central heating. By comparison the brick terraces I'm selling are 59 sq m with estimated heating cost £650 a year, again with gas. The figures for all the houses assume no loft insulation. So, the suggestion is that houses with granite walls need over 3 times as much energy to heat the rooms compared to houses built with brick. I'm not having it, think it's bollox. Any opinions? do the terraced houses have cavity walls?
there is not much difference between brick and stone as materials, but an air gap in cavity walls makes a huge difference There are 3 modes of heat transfer - conduction, convection and radiation. Bear in mind that cavities contain still air - very little convection, no radiation (of heat - not radioactivity!!) and low conduction because the low density of air corresponds to low heat transmission (in or out). By the way, the only difference between still air and foam insulation in the cavity is that the foam guarantees the absence of any slight air movement.
Pretty sure the walls are solid, 1700's build. Bloody thick though.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 4, 2020 7:17:12 GMT
I lived on a granite house when I was very little. In Pembrokeshire. 2-5 years old. Granite is radioactive and does something to people's brains. 'Young' granites such as the 'Rapakivi' granites of southern Finland can still be 'warm' and produce radioactive radon gas. The government hands out money for protective flooring to help prevent this gas building up in large masses in buildings. Does Wales really have 'granite' for building? Probably diorite or gabbro or a migmatite or an anorthosite in Ricco's ex-fisherman's cottage? Described as 'granite or whinstone' in the EPC report.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 7:31:57 GMT
SnipSo, the suggestion is that houses with granite walls need over 3 times as much energy to heat the rooms compared to houses built with brick. I'm not having it, think it's bollox. Any opinions? I suspect that is correct if the houses you are selling a cavity/brick construction. Also I think the house you are buying is end of terrace. Solid stone walls might act as a bit of a heat store at times but equally act as a cold store as well - once the stone gets cold it takes an awfull lot of heat and time to warm the stone to a sufficient depth to stop the cold returning.
On the plus side Barmouth isn't a particularly cold place to live.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 4, 2020 7:41:33 GMT
'Young' granites such as the 'Rapakivi' granites of southern Finland can still be 'warm' and produce radioactive radon gas. The government hands out money for protective flooring to help prevent this gas building up in large masses in buildings. Does Wales really have 'granite' for building? Probably diorite or gabbro or a migmatite or an anorthosite in Ricco's ex-fisherman's cottage? Described as 'granite or whinstone' in the EPC report. That's a bit like describing a Mercedes SLK as 'a bit like a Fiat Panda' - both have 4 wheels. A 'whinstone' will be a dark coloured igneous intrusion, such as a basalt or dolerite. Granites can be predominantly white, pink, or gray in colour, depending on their mineralogy. The word "granite" comes from the Latin granum, a grain, in reference to the coarse-grained structure of such a completely crystalline rock. Strictly speaking, granite is an igneous rock with between 20% and 60% quartz by volume, and at least 35% of the total feldspar consisting of alkali feldspar.
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Post by patty on Sept 4, 2020 7:47:45 GMT
One of the warmest houses I ever stayed in was a very old stone cottage in Cornwall. It had massive thick walls and providing you never let it get properly cold it wasn't hard to heat ...... but it had to be constant ...... let it get cold and it took ages and a ton of fuel Yep....Horror House Walls thick at the front and one side but not the kitchen/bathroom/attic room extension bit Also when I delved had its own air con system with gaps thru to the wide world out there.. suggest delving not a plan to action..live with whatever
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Post by lollygagger on Sept 4, 2020 7:48:19 GMT
EPC reports are a well known joke are they not? A box ticking earner that does little but state the obvious with no accuracy, similar to a buyers survey.
In the good old days when ice on the inside of your windows was normal and the only warm place was in front of the fire, a thick walled abode would have been warmer, for a given value of "warm".
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Post by Jim on Sept 4, 2020 8:23:03 GMT
The answer is at hand, internal insulation, fitted with the benefit of the Green Homes Grants, just come on stream, up to 5k available, you pay 1/3 of the cost. I'm going to get solar thermal on our roof. Free hot water.
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Post by Telemachus on Sept 4, 2020 8:58:57 GMT
We live in a stone (granite) house built in 1880. The construction is that the stone forms an outer shell, without a damp proof course. Inside is then built a wooden structure for the floors/walls/ceilings etc. Walls typically lath and plaster so not very thick or well insulated. There is an air gap between stone wall and lath and plaster wall.
Contrary to what you might think, stone is not fully waterproof and lime mortar even less so, so there is some damp in the walls. The inner wooden structure is pegged into the walls in various places, so there is a route for damp to move from the stone into the wooden structure. In order to keep this under control, the cavity between inner and outer walls must be ventilated. Typically there are a few vents in the stone near ground level, and the top of the cavity is open to roof space so there is a circulation of air to keep things dry and rot-free.
So regardless of how much insulation the stone might or might not give, if cold outside air is circulating in the cavity the room insulation mostly derives from the lath and plaster walls and ceilings. Of course the ceiling insulation can easily be improved with loft insulation, but for the walls it is much harder - you have to rip out the lath and plaster and add kingspan etc thus losing a few inches of the room size.
With our house, we find it reasonably well insulated when it is not windy. When it is windy, the air in the cavities moves faster and blows all our lovely heat out into the great outdoors. It is a reasonably big 4 double-bedroom house, with large hall and landing, but it is also mid-terrace. We use about 26,000 KWh a year of gas (includes gas hob and hot water, but nearly all of it is for heating). Old fashioned non-condensing boiler though, I need a round tuit in order to get a modern more efficient boiler.
We spend about
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 9:20:50 GMT
At least one of the walls in Ricco's doesn't have any plaster, other walls look updated from lathe and plaster.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 9:23:53 GMT
It's a really nice little place that is. Lovely views.
If I was a house type that's the sort of thing I'd go for.
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Post by peterboat on Sept 4, 2020 9:50:53 GMT
When I lived in Auchencairn we had a 460 year old 3 bed cottage 3 foot ish thick external walls its block outside and in with a rubble infill. Like Nicks it was dry lined we filled the cavities with a urethane ball insulation and had warmth! before that we froze to death even though we had central heating. when we sold it I told the new owners that the walls were insulated along with the 1 foot insulation in the roof as well, they were advised to remove the insulation from the walls which they wisely ignored and are still warm to this day. Ricco old buildings like yours are cold and damp follow Jims advice and apply for lots of grants otherwise you will spend a fortune staying warm.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 4, 2020 11:06:35 GMT
When I lived in Auchencairn we had a 460 year old 3 bed cottage 3 foot ish thick external walls its block outside and in with a rubble infill. Like Nicks it was dry lined we filled the cavities with a urethane ball insulation and had warmth! before that we froze to death even though we had central heating. when we sold it I told the new owners that the walls were insulated along with the 1 foot insulation in the roof as well, they were advised to remove the insulation from the walls which they wisely ignored and are still warm to this day. Ricco old buildings like yours are cold and damp follow Jims advice and apply for lots of grants otherwise you will spend a fortune staying warm. Fair points Peter. The problem is I can't really afford to lose a few inches off the internal walls for insulation. Its footprint is only about 12' x 10', plus a small entrance and shower room. I was hoping that by spending £20 quid a week on coal for the stove and keeping the thing going 24/7 that would do apart from when it's really cold outside. I can't completely wrench myself away from living on a boat so at least doing this it's like being on the boat, apart from coal for the boat only costs me a tenner. The area of the house is only about twice that of the boat, the boat is really terribly insulated (1" of polystyrene, and not everywhere) so unless I'm completely misunderstanding, I should be as warm as I am on the boat? Or are 2 feet thick stone walls worse insulators than 6mm steel and an inch of foam? I can't do anything to the exterior of the walls, it's listed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 11:14:39 GMT
I'd definitely go down the burn more coal route. It is Wales after all
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 4, 2020 15:06:25 GMT
Come home to a real fire.
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Post by mouse on Sept 4, 2020 15:22:03 GMT
Come home to a real fire. I considered buying a house in Llanfair Caereinion a long time back. It faced onto the A458 and there was no back garden, just the river Banwy. Talking to a local about "come home to a real fire, but a house in Wales" he said you will have no problems, you are an ordinary working old boy, not a solicitor or doctor from Birmingham.
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