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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 17, 2020 17:20:50 GMT
It will be killer wales whales as soon as he gets the surfboard out... It's going to be funny when he meets the local women
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 17, 2020 17:28:07 GMT
So far no serious issues have come to the fore since I moved in 2 weeks ago. Bit of maintenance needed to windows and fascias, that can wait until the spring. One thing that does need attending to is the electrics. Yesterday the electrics tripped when I switched the bathroom light on. Interestingly it was the main switch that tripped, rather than the one dedicated to downstairs lights. Switched off earlier and had a look. Positive and negative wires look fine but the earth wire looks burnt. Tracing it back into the ceiling void this section isn't covered in insulation, is covered in the blue corrosion that happens with copper, and looks very thin. Before I cut a bigger hole in the ceiling so I can access things better, does this sound like a likely scenario to cause the tripping? It’s not clear exactly what tripped. You say the “main switch” but is this just a switch as you’d find in an ancient fuse box with wire fuses (like in our house!) - presumably not because that can’t “trip”. Or a main switch which can trip on overload. Or a switch combined with an RCD which can trip with an earth leakage. This can be determined by whether the switch has a test button associated with it, which trips the switch. If it does, it has an RCD function which will trip with a relatively small current leaking to earth (30mA) from either live or neutral. If it is an overload switch then it will trip only when many 10s of amps are flowing due to a short between live and neutral or live and earth. I think it is normal practice to have RCD breakers only on ring main /appliance circuits and not on lighting circuits, but old houses are a bit like boats - every one is wired differently! For example, someone might have decided to wire up a light to a ring mains circuit (bad idea!).
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Post by Gone on Nov 17, 2020 17:42:45 GMT
If the copper Earth wire is corroded then it is probably getting wet, which means a water leak. If there is a junction box and it is getting wet then the current leak will trip an rcd. I would investigate urgently
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 17:43:50 GMT
So far no serious issues have come to the fore since I moved in 2 weeks ago. Bit of maintenance needed to windows and fascias, that can wait until the spring. One thing that does need attending to is the electrics. Yesterday the electrics tripped when I switched the bathroom light on. Interestingly it was the main switch that tripped, rather than the one dedicated to downstairs lights. Switched off earlier and had a look. Positive and negative wires look fine but the earth wire looks burnt. Tracing it back into the ceiling void this section isn't covered in insulation, is covered in the blue corrosion that happens with copper, and looks very thin. Before I cut a bigger hole in the ceiling so I can access things better, does this sound like a likely scenario to cause the tripping? It’s not clear exactly what tripped. You say the “main switch” but is this just a switch as you’d find in an ancient fuse box with wire fuses (like in our house!) - presumably not because that can’t “trip”. Or a main switch which can trip on overload. Or a switch combined with an RCD which can trip with an earth leakage. This can be determined by whether the switch has a test button associated with it, which trips the switch. If it does, it has an RCD function which will trip with a relatively small current leaking to earth (30mA) from either live or neutral. If it is an overload switch then it will trip only when many 10s of amps are flowing due to a short between live and neutral or live and earth. I think it is normal practice to have RCD breakers only on ring main /appliance circuits and not on lighting circuits, but old houses are a bit like boats - every one is wired differently! For example, someone might have decided to wire up a light to a ring mains circuit (bad idea!). These days RCDs have to be on all circuits even lighting, common practice is two RCDs one with downstairs ring etc and upstairs lights and the other upstairs ring and downstairs lights for obvious reasons.
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Post by perkwunos on Nov 17, 2020 17:51:04 GMT
Frankly, I'm surprised you're still alive.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 17, 2020 17:52:37 GMT
It’s not clear exactly what tripped. You say the “main switch” but is this just a switch as you’d find in an ancient fuse box with wire fuses (like in our house!) - presumably not because that can’t “trip”. Or a main switch which can trip on overload. Or a switch combined with an RCD which can trip with an earth leakage. This can be determined by whether the switch has a test button associated with it, which trips the switch. If it does, it has an RCD function which will trip with a relatively small current leaking to earth (30mA) from either live or neutral. If it is an overload switch then it will trip only when many 10s of amps are flowing due to a short between live and neutral or live and earth. I think it is normal practice to have RCD breakers only on ring main /appliance circuits and not on lighting circuits, but old houses are a bit like boats - every one is wired differently! For example, someone might have decided to wire up a light to a ring mains circuit (bad idea!). These days RCDs have to be on all circuits even lighting, common practice is two RCDs one with downstairs ring etc and upstairs lights and the other upstairs ring and downstairs lights for obvious reasons. Ok fair enough but it is not retrospective, of course. We still live in a house with no RCDs on anything, well until I rewired the bathroom and ran that circuit through a stand alone RCD. Bearing in mind how Ricco describes the wiring it seems unlikely that his cottage is particularly up to date!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 18:07:25 GMT
These days RCDs have to be on all circuits even lighting, common practice is two RCDs one with downstairs ring etc and upstairs lights and the other upstairs ring and downstairs lights for obvious reasons. Ok fair enough but it is not retrospective, of course. We still live in a house with no RCDs on anything, well until I rewired the bathroom and ran that circuit through a stand alone RCD. Bearing in mind how Ricco describes the wiring it seems unlikely that his cottage is particularly up to date! Absolutely, see my comment above re single cored cable, I had a house in the 1970's that was like that, nightmare! Nothing is retrospective however any additions/repairs have to be to latest regs, I have known an electrician come in to add stuff to a house and put a C2* on the inspection cert. if its wired as I suspect it is the best course of action is a complete rewire. * www.intersafe.co.uk/news/fixed-wire-testing-observation-codes-c1-c2-c3-and-fi-explained/
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Post by Jim on Nov 17, 2020 18:09:11 GMT
What colour are the wires, blue and brown or red and black? Pvc insulation or rubber. Defo needs a rewire if old rubber, may need a rewire if red and black, should be generally OK if blue and brown. The earth wires within sockets etc should be sheathed with green and yellow earth sleeve, if there isn't any that also hints at an old system. As already asked, what plugs, wylex? It's only 10 years or so since I bought a house with many of these problems, they tend to be probate properties, we call them Pissy houses, for an obvious reason.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 18:13:08 GMT
Clinton Cool said earlier positive and negative. These don't exist in an AC circuit (obviously) but it did make me wonder if it has red and black wires rather than the brown and blue.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Nov 17, 2020 18:14:50 GMT
So far no serious issues have come to the fore since I moved in 2 weeks ago. Bit of maintenance needed to windows and fascias, that can wait until the spring. One thing that does need attending to is the electrics. Yesterday the electrics tripped when I switched the bathroom light on. Interestingly it was the main switch that tripped, rather than the one dedicated to downstairs lights. Switched off earlier and had a look. Positive and negative wires look fine but the earth wire looks burnt. Tracing it back into the ceiling void this section isn't covered in insulation, is covered in the blue corrosion that happens with copper, and looks very thin. Before I cut a bigger hole in the ceiling so I can access things better, does this sound like a likely scenario to cause the tripping? It’s not clear exactly what tripped. You say the “main switch” but is this just a switch as you’d find in an ancient fuse box with wire fuses (like in our house!) - presumably not because that can’t “trip”. Or a main switch which can trip on overload. Or a switch combined with an RCD which can trip with an earth leakage. This can be determined by whether the switch has a test button associated with it, which trips the switch. If it does, it has an RCD function which will trip with a relatively small current leaking to earth (30mA) from either live or neutral. If it is an overload switch then it will trip only when many 10s of amps are flowing due to a short between live and neutral or live and earth. I think it is normal practice to have RCD breakers only on ring main /appliance circuits and not on lighting circuits, but old houses are a bit like boats - every one is wired differently! For example, someone might have decided to wire up a light to a ring mains circuit (bad idea!). Ok there are half a dozen switches each labelled, 'cooker', 'shower' etc. etc. None of these tripped. Then there's one at the end which isn't labelled but has a 'test' button on the side of it. This is the one that tripped. I was hoping that the clearly dodgy earth wire runs from the light unit where the fault occurred to the switch. Is this likely? I could test if this is the case by doing a continuity test with my multimeter. If so I could buy a length of earth wire and use the old wire to drag this through before connecting up. Access is very limited! Does this sound plausible? The better news is that the previously killer stove is now refurbished. New ropes around the doors and lower cover, missing and cracked fire cement upgraded with 1200 degree silicone. Smoke tested, all ok, just waiting a couple of days for it to dry properly before I start thinking about how to get a coal delivery up the hill.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 18:18:10 GMT
coal delivery up the hill CPL (coals2U or logs2U websites) offer delivery to your coal store. They are good about it. I buy 10kg bags of homefire from them for the barge and they bring it right down to beside the boat, which is not roadside. It is down hill though. I suppose they might have a hill clause.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 18:19:44 GMT
OK it seems there is an RCD fitted, thinking about it that's not surprising as it was a holiday let. As Jim says what colour are the cables and are they pvc or rubber?
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 17, 2020 18:22:06 GMT
It’s not clear exactly what tripped. You say the “main switch” but is this just a switch as you’d find in an ancient fuse box with wire fuses (like in our house!) - presumably not because that can’t “trip”. Or a main switch which can trip on overload. Or a switch combined with an RCD which can trip with an earth leakage. This can be determined by whether the switch has a test button associated with it, which trips the switch. If it does, it has an RCD function which will trip with a relatively small current leaking to earth (30mA) from either live or neutral. If it is an overload switch then it will trip only when many 10s of amps are flowing due to a short between live and neutral or live and earth. I think it is normal practice to have RCD breakers only on ring main /appliance circuits and not on lighting circuits, but old houses are a bit like boats - every one is wired differently! For example, someone might have decided to wire up a light to a ring mains circuit (bad idea!). before I start thinking about how to get a coal delivery up the hill. pit pony, boyo. what you really want is for loddon to pop round and sort it all out. he's on the button with this wiring issue. all the old crap out, and new system in that will go for 40 years. £7,000 my estimate.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 17, 2020 18:24:15 GMT
It’s not clear exactly what tripped. You say the “main switch” but is this just a switch as you’d find in an ancient fuse box with wire fuses (like in our house!) - presumably not because that can’t “trip”. Or a main switch which can trip on overload. Or a switch combined with an RCD which can trip with an earth leakage. This can be determined by whether the switch has a test button associated with it, which trips the switch. If it does, it has an RCD function which will trip with a relatively small current leaking to earth (30mA) from either live or neutral. If it is an overload switch then it will trip only when many 10s of amps are flowing due to a short between live and neutral or live and earth. I think it is normal practice to have RCD breakers only on ring main /appliance circuits and not on lighting circuits, but old houses are a bit like boats - every one is wired differently! For example, someone might have decided to wire up a light to a ring mains circuit (bad idea!). Ok there are half a dozen switches each labelled, 'cooker', 'shower' etc. etc. None of these tripped. Then there's one at the end which isn't labelled but has a 'test' button on the side of it. This is the one that tripped. I was hoping that the clearly dodgy earth wire runs from the light unit where the fault occurred to the switch. Is this likely? I could test if this is the case by doing a continuity test with my multimeter. If so I could buy a length of earth wire and use the old wire to drag this through before connecting up. Access is very limited! Does this sound plausible? The better news is that the previously killer stove is now refurbished. New ropes around the doors and lower cover, missing and cracked fire cement upgraded with 1200 degree silicone. Smoke tested, all ok, just waiting a couple of days for it to dry properly before I start thinking about how to get a coal delivery up the hill. Ok so it sounds like an RCD or RCBO (combined RCD and overload breaker). Yes since you say the problem arose when you switched the light on, it’s likely that the fault lies between the switch and the light. And probably an earth leakage fault ie some degree (possibly fairly high resistance eg via corroded metal) of connection between live and earth. Replacing the wiring between switch and light is likely to fix it. But if that bit of wiring is that bad, what about the rest of the house?
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Post by Clinton Cool on Nov 17, 2020 18:26:35 GMT
OK it seems there is an RCD fitted, thinking about it that's not surprising as it was a holiday let. As Jim says what colour are the cables and are they pvc or rubber? Just checked, pvc, red and black. Red being positive I assume.
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