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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 9:38:00 GMT
Sigh. All very well but you haven't said what you think the cracks are... I see it as a positive thing, but I'm beginning to wonder whether some people wouid prefer lockdowns to go on indefinately and sod the millions of younger people who haven't had the chance to live out a full life yet. I think the measures could well end up killing more people than the virus over the next year or so with the cancelled operations, scans and treatment. I also still maintain that the psycological damage to 10s of millions of people will result in the NHS being overwhelmed, not just due to psycological issues but also due to stress lowering immunity (proven scientifically). ok .... some of the cracks
un published, preliminary report not peer reviewed . deals only with a specific small group of the population and only then with ones who survived the first infection and were fit enough to join the trial "eg no long covid"
That means any percentages taken from the results have to be regarded with a great deal of caution. You can't extrapolate from a narrow base report or in fact from any single report, unless it has been carefully reviewed
The things you mention aren't really cracks. They are just typical of most early scientific studies which often prove to be valid. The only real valid data is looking at the number of additional deaths over the year. All the other interpretations are based on questionable data...i.e Not clear how acurate the tests are. Not clear how many of those who died and tested positive died mainly of other symptoms. Not clear of the true number of people who already have immunity (as we don't seem to be seeing much antibody testing). Not clear as to how many of those hospitalised and tested positive are actually suffering Covid symptoms (remembering that the UCL study show only 86% show symptoms). Most of us have effectively been in lockdown since the beginning of November. Yet the percentage of daily deaths are now exceeding the increase in 'cases'. Is this just due to Covid, or also the damaging effects of the measures? Either way, I'm not convinced the lock downs are working anymore. Let's hope the jabs work, assuming they don't mess with our natural immunity!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 9:46:18 GMT
Vaccines surely do mess with natural immunity. Isn't that the whole point of them? A bit like getting addicted to crack.
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Post by JohnV on Jan 14, 2021 9:49:56 GMT
All the way through this pandemic there have been articles or posts on social media that post accurate figures but in such a way that totally misrepresent the true overall case ........ best I can do is give you an example from the first surge when there were so many deniers fullfact.org/health/ons-2020-covid-death-totals/
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 9:52:00 GMT
I will pick up on one thing Of course the deaths are still rising, deaths lag 2-3 weeks behind infections. Were infections still on the up 3 weeks ago? Will deaths be falling in 2-3 weeks? I hope so. The sooner the covidiots isolate the better for all of us.
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Post by JohnV on Jan 14, 2021 9:57:13 GMT
ok .... some of the cracks
un published, preliminary report not peer reviewed . deals only with a specific small group of the population and only then with ones who survived the first infection and were fit enough to join the trial "eg no long covid"
That means any percentages taken from the results have to be regarded with a great deal of caution. You can't extrapolate from a narrow base report or in fact from any single report, unless it has been carefully reviewed
Most of us have effectively been in lockdown since the beginning of November. Yet the percentage of daily deaths are now exceeding the increase in 'cases'. Is this just due to Covid, or also the damaging effects of the measures? Either way, I'm not convinced the lock downs are working anymore. Let's hope the jabs work, assuming they don't mess with our natural immunity! because a hell of a large number of people are not making any effort to abide by the recommendations
maybe it will start to work if it is fully enforced but I suspect before a British government is truly draconion a collapse of the Health Service would be required ...... so hopefully the roll out of vaccinations will beat the curve
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 9:59:27 GMT
Vaccines surely do mess with natural immunity. Isn't that the whole point of them? A bit like getting addicted to crack. No silly. They 'train' our immune system to tackle the virus. Well the way vaccines used to work (for the last 100 years) was to give you a less harmful similar version of the virus to stimulate your immune system. The new mRNA vaccines are new to humans, so we will have to wait and see what happens. Must admit, I have more faith in my immune system but if I had to choose one, I'd go for the more traditional Oxford one, it also sounds more British. Chris drinks Oxford Landing for the same reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:07:17 GMT
Most of us have effectively been in lockdown since the beginning of November. Yet the percentage of daily deaths are now exceeding the increase in 'cases'. Is this just due to Covid, or also the damaging effects of the measures? Either way, I'm not convinced the lock downs are working anymore. Let's hope the jabs work, assuming they don't mess with our natural immunity! because a hell of a large number of people are not making any effort to abide by the recommendations
maybe it will start to work if it is fully enforced but I suspect before a British government is truly draconion a collapse of the Health Service would be required ...... so hopefully the roll out of vaccinations will beat the curve
I suspect any collapse of the NHS will be due to the poor funding over many years. Didn't someone say that the Tories wanted it all to go private anyway? Foxy? When I say funding, I mean investing in people, not the beds which the stats seem to show aren't so much the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:08:23 GMT
The immune system, provided you have a functional one which not everyone does, is a powerful deterrent.
I suppose my parents would be called anti vaxxers as we (sisters and myself) had none of the injections when we were kids. I read somewhere that the BCG was obligatory but if obviously wasn't as I never had it and I was in school.
Similar thing with the pets never any injections. Not needed.
Never had any trouble with the pets or members of family being seriously ill with any of these incredibly scary things we all need vaccinating against. .
Maybe this was down to everyone else having had the vaccines ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:10:02 GMT
Reasons to be cheerful ... well at least a little hopeful Over 2.6 million first jabs administered already, and despite glitches in logistics, and bumps in the distribution road, the process of vaccinating the top four tiers of 'the most vulnerable' is ramping up and apparently 'on target' to reaching the stated goal of 15 February. Early signs of a flattening out, if not a diminution of new infections, suggesting the restrictions are beginning to work. Suggestions that the restrictions are being complied with by 80 to 90 % of the public ... despite medias focus on those not doing so. Let's hope we can put this behind us very soon, whatever the true details are. Rog
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:11:00 GMT
. The new mRNA vaccines are new to humans, so we will have to wait and see what happens. [ One thing that won't happen is Pfizer being sued if there are problems in future because they have been liberated of this potential burden by UK.gov. That must be really handy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:13:21 GMT
The immune system, provided you have a functional one which not everyone does, is a powerful deterrent. I suppose my parents would be called anti vaxxers as we (sisters and myself) had none of the injections when we were kids. I read somewhere that the BCG was obligatory but if obviously wasn't as I never had it and I was in school. Similar thing with the pets never any injections. Not needed. Never had any trouble with the pets or members of family being seriously ill with any of these incredibly scary things we all need vaccinating against. . Maybe this was down to everyone else having had the vaccines ? Tongue in cheek aside, antibiotics are becoming more and more of a problem for similar reasons. Nature spent billions of years of evolution getting our immune system here. Scientists much less time. Being an ex-engineer I can see the wonders of our inventions, but I also see the harm we are doing by messing with nature and trying to live past our sell by date.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:17:30 GMT
It's really silly when you think about it.
I'm an engineer too but not to degree level but anyway one of the main problems with human long term survival is overpopulation. Yet we spend the whole time trying to stop people dying.
Is it just incredibly cynical to think this is driven simply by money and shareholder returns ?
What is so special about humans anyway? It's just another life form at the end of the day. You live then you die. Some people die younger or older than others.
Animals do it too. It's all part of nature maaan.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:18:09 GMT
All the way through this pandemic there have been articles or posts on social media that post accurate figures but in such a way that totally misrepresent the true overall case ........ best I can do is give you an example from the first surge when there were so many deniers fullfact.org/health/ons-2020-covid-death-totals/When I saw the first surge in Italy occur, I wondered how many were literally scared to death and how many died from Covid (as opposed to with it). I doubt we'll ever know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:26:15 GMT
It's really silly when you think about it. I'm an engineer too but not to degree level but anyway one of the main problems with human long term survival is overpopulation. Yet we spend the whole time trying to stop people dying. Is it just incredibly cynical to think this is driven simply by money and shareholder returns ? What is so special about humans anyway? It's just another life form at the end of the day. You live then you die. Some people die younger or older than others. Animals do it too. It's all part of nature maaan. Well as I've said before. My 100 year old mum has said for many years, that she wished there was a littie pill she could take to end it all. I think that just sums up the problem. Being slightly less cynical, maybe it's a positive thing that we want our loved ones to stay alive forever. Whether they want the same, is a different question. The other question is, as an older person, do we we want younger people to sacrifice their lives so we can live a few extra years. These are 'God' like decisions. I don't think any of us can answer them lightly...if at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:32:40 GMT
My 100 year old mum has said for many years, that she wished there was a littie pill she could take to end it all. I think that just sums up the problem. Venlafaxine is a little pill which can help with this but you have to do the hard part yourself.
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