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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 8:53:00 GMT
Nick your earlier posts came across as the extreme end of the argument ....... I believe you are probably right that overprotecting children can be a bad thing and that mistakes need to be made by the individual to truly understand risk and danger. However. You don't let kettle leads/pan handles be within reach of a toddler who might pull them, to see what they are, as these could cause serious injury. Something that causes pain but not serious injury? fine , leave it. A tank of hot water heated by an engine can reach very high temperatures, enough to cause a serious scald.Why expose a child to possible serious damage/lifetime scarring. If you think they should learn a lesson then set the temperature at "too hot" so they learn to add cold. Open fires without guards plus inflammable childrens night clothing have produced some appalling injuries on small children ...... are you seriously suggesting this is Darwinism ? I did feel the chap without fireguards was pushing his luck, but it worked for his kids. He had escaped to the UK during the Hungarian revolution so perhaps had a different idea of what real danger was. I think you have to look at the risk of a thing, ie the probability of it occurring and the consequence if it does. So a pan full of boiling water pulled onto a small child needs to be avoided. Putting your hand under a running hot tap, whereby the child is old enough to independently wash their hands and have been told that the water is too hot, seems a hazard not needing to be fixed. Of course the child only learns that the way to wash hands is to stick them under the running hot, because their parents have demonstrated it. If the demonstrated policy was always to put the plug in and fill with hot and cold, that's what the child would do. The fire guard comparison doesn't work very well here because a fire guard isn't really there to prevent a child touching a heat source and 'learning' that something like hot coals will burn you. A fire guard is to prevent a child actually falling into an open fire which has more serious consequences than a burnt finger or hand.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 8:58:59 GMT
mjg,
As you are I believe a retired nurse do you have any comments about the correct hand washing procedure for children?
I tend to think that filling a basin is not very hygienic. I prefer running water. I don't really know though.
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Post by thebfg on Apr 26, 2017 9:01:21 GMT
Probs with Legionella only occur with stored water so,as you will be reducing the temp at point of use there is no issue Phil What about the water stored between valve and the tap/shower-head? At work we have to run every tap once a week to prevent legionaires, don't know how or why but it's enough to prevent it happening.
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Post by thebfg on Apr 26, 2017 9:07:24 GMT
When you talk of washing clothes, are we talking of the kitchen sink.
Wouldn't it be easier to alter the sink in the bathroom so that runs cooler water, just for hand washing and leave the other sink alone.
If your adding a tap would it not just be easier to change the taps to a mixer anyway.
My nipper has OCD and is always washing his hands. However I have a funny feeling when we are not looking he just uses the cold water anyway with anti bacteria handwash. We've always got babywipes lieing around and they use them a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 9:08:56 GMT
mjg, As you are I believe a retired nurse do you have any comments about the correct hand washing procedure for children? I tend to think that filling a basin is not very hygienic. I prefer running water. I don't really know though. My knowledge is now five years out of date but our infection control nurses (who I used to manage) would always say to wash hands under running water. The water temp. was less important as the physical act of rubbing your hands together was an important part of removing bacteria from the skin surface. Obviously re immersing your hands into the water you have just washed your hands in is defeating the object. (That said it needs to be remembered that hand washing in a clinical setting always should be done to a very high standard (there is actually a recommended method for doing it) so applying such methodology to a domestic setting is probably over kill).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 9:11:06 GMT
What about the water stored between valve and the tap/shower-head? At work we have to run every tap once a week to prevent legionaires, don't know how or why but it's enough to prevent it happening. Because legionella thrives in stagnant water.
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Post by lollygagger on Apr 26, 2017 9:23:07 GMT
How about axes? I let my 4 year old have a chop with (a bluntish) one. I figured if he hit his leg while he could barely lift it he'd get a tiny bruise and it would be better than a full bloodied swing at his shin when he was older. Wife was horrified, I still say I was right. We had a lot of similar discussions. I had them fire breathing at 5 and 7.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 9:26:28 GMT
When you talk of washing clothes, are we talking of the kitchen sink. Wouldn't it be easier to alter the sink in the bathroom so that runs cooler water, just for hand washing and leave the other sink alone. If your adding a tap would it not just be easier to change the taps to a mixer anyway. My nipper has OCD and is always washing his hands. However I have a funny feeling when we are not looking he just uses the cold water anyway with anti bacteria handwash. We've always got babywipes lieing around and they use them a lot. The basin in the shower room is big and used for occasional clothes washing yes. Kitchen sink is less clean in general. Its going to be handy to have a hot and a less hot option. I've got a nice laboratory tap which would make a good third tap and be easier to reach. I also have a nice old Whale hand pump tap which I intend to fit. Maybe 4 taps is going too far? /takes anorak off/
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 26, 2017 9:29:00 GMT
mjg, As you are I believe a retired nurse do you have any comments about the correct hand washing procedure for children? I tend to think that filling a basin is not very hygienic. I prefer running water. I don't really know though. Which of course raises a whole other topic about excessive sterilisation of kids environment leading to a massive increase in asthma, food allergies and childhood leukaemia. It is good for kids to eat a bit of dirt every now and again, and of course hands contain "good bacteria" as well as bad. It's a pity so many parents are too stupid to see this, it damages their children. So yes, careful hand washing after say handling raw chicken is a good idea. Scrupulous hand washing having just been generally mucking around, not important and in fact somewhat detrimental. And maybe tips a balance to OCD in later life?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 9:30:40 GMT
Its ok they get plenty of dirt as well And the younger one just coming up to 5 is a pro at cutting firewood with my 12v cordless makita chainsaw.
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 26, 2017 9:31:03 GMT
The other thing about washing hands under a running hot tap is that it is wasteful, both of water and of energy produced by creating CO2.
Of course in a hospital situation, it is a different matter - but not generally applicable at home.
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Post by lollygagger on Apr 26, 2017 9:33:24 GMT
I think a seperate hand washing tap for the kids is a great idea.
I had a friend when I was a nipper who had pulled a pan of boiling water onto himself. All over his chest and stomach was a mess of tangled scrars, he was lucky he had missed his head and face. We had a stair gate to keep ours out of the kitchen because I had seen the results first hand.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 10:21:21 GMT
The other thing about washing hands under a running hot tap is that it is wasteful, both of water and of energy produced by creating CO2. So is breathing. I wouldn't expect running hot water would use significantly more energy than filling a basin.
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 26, 2017 11:48:43 GMT
The other thing about washing hands under a running hot tap is that it is wasteful, both of water and of energy produced by creating CO2. So is breathing. I wouldn't expect running hot water would use significantly more energy than filling a basin. However breathing is a necessity of life, whereas pouring hot water down the drain isn't. I suppose it depends how long you leave the tap running vs how much you fill the basin, but my mummy always taught me that washing under a running hot tap was wasteful - she having spent her teenage years during WW2 was into not being wasteful.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 26, 2017 12:23:17 GMT
The other thing about washing hands under a running hot tap is that it is wasteful, both of water and of energy produced by creating CO2. So is breathing. I wouldn't expect running hot water would use significantly more energy than filling a basin. Less, I'd say if you turn the tap off in between wetting your hands and rinsing them, i.e. while soaping them.
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