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Post by bromleyxphil on Nov 4, 2017 8:07:16 GMT
2. Are you going to install it to the current standard, ie with insulated flue? Sorry only just read the whole thread carefully 2. Yes I will fit it to standard 1. Is there a “recognised” way to achieve this floating chimney  tried to copy the bit about not resting the full chimney on the stove but failed  |
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 4, 2017 8:29:01 GMT
2. Are you going to install it to the current standard, ie with insulated flue? Sorry only just read the whole thread carefully 2. Yes I will fit it to standard 1. Is there a “recognised” way to achieve this floating chimney tried to copy the bit about not resting the full chimney on the stove but failed Being pragmatic about it, I think it depends on how heavy the flue is. So on our own boat with single skinned flue, the flue is resting on the stove and floating in the collar (thus allowing it to expand). But then it is only a few feet and thus not that heavy. If you go double skinned, it is heavier but again I suppose it depends on the length and perhaps in a boat it’s never going to be that long or heavy. But the idea would be to support the flue with a wall bracket. To deal with the expansion issue, the flue should be a firm sliding fit in the roof collar. I didn’t install our stove but it has some sort of plasticy sleeve thing between the flue and the roof collar. Not sure if it is a pre-formed thing or just something like silicone. But the point is to avoid locking the flue to the roof collar. But equally, it need to prevent condensate running down between the flue and the collar. |
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Post by bromleyxphil on Nov 4, 2017 9:13:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 10:39:40 GMT
The output on that stove is a bit more than the Morso you linked to in your original post so output wise should be fine. It's also a slightly higher output than our Charnwood which is 5kw and that successfully heats a large lounge/diner and if we open the doors some heat carries upstairs too. I dont know how common they are on boats but in general terms it's a stove much like any other in design so I see no reason why it couldn't be utilised (happy to be corrected) |
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Post by bromleyxphil on Nov 6, 2017 22:40:23 GMT
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Post by quaysider on Nov 7, 2017 8:17:29 GMT
Are you absolutley Set on the Morso though? - I ask because I WAS for ages when plannig the boat - by the time I'd put together the order for the stove and bits and peices I was shocked at the total cost... shocked enough to look around again and decide that although my first (bear with me) Meile waashing machine lasted forever and worked well - I have since bought a hotpoint (for the house) and Hoover (for the boat) and BOTH do the job perfectly well and thus far (4 years in the house) and 12 months on the boat have yet to break - when they do, I know parts will be easy to get hold of etc. Have a look at www.gr8fires.co.uk/hamlet-hardy-4-kw-multi-fuel-wood-burning-stove-6206 narrowboatellis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/every-day-is-like-christmas-at-moment.html It's turned out to be brilliant. Easy to control, stays in overnight - having chucked a few more coals in about 9 and got up at 8 this morning, opened the vent back up fully(had closed it 1/4 down) and away it went with the same coal - temperature in the saloon was 24.5 degrees. It was quite easy to fit using the "flue kit" I got from ely chandlers so all in for less than 400 quid. |
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Post by smileypete on Nov 7, 2017 10:55:29 GMT
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Post by smileypete on Nov 7, 2017 11:08:14 GMT
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Post by kris on Nov 7, 2017 11:52:09 GMT
I'm interested in why insulated flue is now standard. On the outside I can understand, so the smoke doesn't cool in the chimney and keeps rising. But inside the boat, surely it's best to have uninsulated so you get maximum heat into the space. Anyway I'm genuinely intetested. |
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 7, 2017 12:10:07 GMT
I'm interested in why insulated flue is now standard. On the outside I can understand, so the smoke doesn't cool in the chimney and keeps rising. But inside the boat, surely it's best to have uninsulated so you get maximum heat into the space. Anyway I'm genuinely intetested. It does seem counter-intuitive. However from practical experience, we had a large wood burner fitted in the gliding club with a long uninsulated flue going up to the high roof (maybe 15-20'). The room was always cold and draughty. When that stove fell to bits, one of our members who had a business fitting these things, installed a new one and insisted on fitting an insulated flue. A very long insulated flue! The stove's nominal output ratings are near enough the same, but the room is now noticably warmer with less wood burnt. It is very noticably better.
I think it is to do with how much air has to go up the chimney. You will know that when for example you light a stove with vents fully open, even though it is blazing away you don't actually get much heat from it. Until you shut the vents down to tickover, then suddenly you get a lot more heat. Whatever air goes up the chimney has to be replaced by cold air being drawn in from outside. So if the relationship between airflow and combustion can be kept to a minimum aiflow, that is good for heat efficiency.
With an uninsulated flue, the air/gasses cool quickly and thus have to be going quite fast (ie a big flow) in order to avoid them cooling to the point that they no longer want to go up / create a "draw". With an insulated flue, flue gas cooling is not such an issue and the draw can be the same but with much less air/gas flow. That means much less cold air needing to be drawn into the boat.
Well that's the best I can do, not sure how convincing it is! But the reality is that insulated flue = greater overall efficiency.
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Post by kris on Nov 7, 2017 12:44:02 GMT
With a long flue as in the example you mention I can see what you are saying. But In the short lengths involved with boats I can't see it making much difference.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 7, 2017 12:54:53 GMT
With a long flue as in the example you mention I can see what you are saying. But In the short lengths involved with boats I can't see it making much difference. Inclined to agree it will make less difference. But the argument is often that having an insulated flue will result in worse heating because all that nice heat given off by the flue will be lost. That argument is wrong. There are other arguments in support though. Our Morso normally runs fairly slowly, otherwise it gets too hot in the front of the boat where the sitting area is. I find that whilst the bottom of the flue might be quite hot, as it approaches the ceiling it’s pretty cool really, so the flue gases are presumably equally cool. This manifests itself as a problem when you open the stove door - it smokes. Well either invisibly once the coal is well burnt, or visibly when new coal is added. If the flue were insulated, the gas temperature in it would be hotter and this would create more draw when the door was opened, thus ensuring the fumes went up the chimney and not into the room. Stoves in narrowboats already suffer from having too-short a flue, but double insulated helps to alleviate this problem by increasing the draw. Of course there are also safety arguments, if the stove is running fast the flue can get pretty hot and with tumblehome etc, the top of the flue can be near woodwork etc. Ditto when stepping into the boat there might be temptation to grab hold of the flue (ours is adjacent to the step as it is in many narrowboats) and a cool-on-the-outside double skinned flue is not going to burn a hand. |
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Post by smileypete on Nov 7, 2017 13:54:13 GMT
I'm interested in why insulated flue is now standard. On the outside I can understand, so the smoke doesn't cool in the chimney and keeps rising. But inside the boat, surely it's best to have uninsulated so you get maximum heat into the space. Anyway I'm genuinely intetested. I think the main thing is to have a couple of decent CO alarms, one with a digital readout, then keep the flue well swept and any baffles clear. AFAICT baffles were fitted to improve the efficiency of the stove itself, most stoves are fitted in houses with a long insulated flue, so no opportunity to recover heat from the flue itself. As Nick says, another advantage of an insulated flue is that it saves putting heat protection on surfaces around the flue. |
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Post by smileypete on Nov 7, 2017 13:55:39 GMT
I find that whilst the bottom of the flue might be quite hot, as it approaches the ceiling it’s pretty cool really, so the flue gases are presumably equally cool. This manifests itself as a problem when you open the stove door - it smokes. But does your stove have a baffle plate fitted? |
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 7, 2017 13:58:15 GMT
I find that whilst the bottom of the flue might be quite hot, as it approaches the ceiling it’s pretty cool really, so the flue gases are presumably equally cool. This manifests itself as a problem when you open the stove door - it smokes. But does your stove have a baffle plate fitted? Yes. Perhaps I should remove it? But then doesn’t that reduce efficiency? I do from time to time remove the baffle plate to clean the soot and debris from the top. |
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