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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 20:17:28 GMT
Credit where it's due........never more arrogant than you chuck Rog
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 20:54:20 GMT
Finally on the engine power thing, clearly many boats including ours are grossly over-powered for canal cruising. But that isn’t the whole story. Firstly of course we may want to use a lot of power eg fighting current on a river. I recall a prolonged period running at 2400rpm trying to get upstream to Worcester when the Severn was in flood. And secondly, the engine is not only for propelling the boat. We have the ability to generate 5.5kw of electrical power with it. That is ~7.5 bhp, but with alternator efficiency of perhaps 60%, that requires 12.5bhp from the engine. And it needs to be available at canal cruising rpm of perhaps 1300 (idle being 850). Or in fact at 1000 rpm when passing moored boats. Of course most of the time all that electrical power isn’t wanted, but even a realistic demand of say 2kw for the tumble drier and putting 100A into the domestic batteries needs 3.5kw which is 8 bhp from the engine, just off idle (so it still works when passing moored boats). For that you need an abundance of torque at low rpm - unlike a propellor, a fixed electrical load needs increasingly more torque at lower rpms. All that means a big engine that at times can seem severely over-powered. Bottom line is that things have moved on a bit since a bollinder, a stove and an oil lamp was all one needed! All of the points you make above could be addressed simply by measures to improve the appallingly low propulsive efficiency that's a designed and built-in feature of virtually every modern day canalboat, and/or refraining from using the boat as a mobile laundry whilst on the move. Or, of course, there is the even better solution of installing a sensibly and adequately sized propulsion engine driving a well matched, efficient propellor of ideal diameter and adequate pitch, . . . 20 bhp is more than enough for a canalboat, river use included, and a separate, built-in genset to take care of your high load domestic needs. That would give you two separate sources of power with both of them running at, or at the very least a lot nearer, their optimum loading for best efficiency for most of the time either one or both are running. Nick surprises me that he didn't do his sums better when specifying his boat. He could of saved a fortune had he realised Launderettes are cheap and often close to a pub. All this overpowered engine, travelpower, big inverter, space draining and water wasting washing machine and tumble drier nonsense could have been avoided. In the 10 years of extended cruising away from home in Fenland (ans lately with a dwarf in tow) I would guess we have spent a shade over £150 on laundry. Around half of the cost of a reasonable washing machine let alone all the crap needed to drive the damn thing. For reference Johnson's do a big bag wash, dry, iron and fold for £13 in Ely, drop it off in the afternoon, collect at 08:00 next morning👍 Widow Twanky's in St Ives is opposite the Floods Tavern, they also do repairs and alterations while you wait 🍻🚢⚓ Mr G's in Brandon has a Bar, Restaurant and Ten Pin Bowling alley attached 🎳 We never hog a water point either
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 2, 2018 21:02:38 GMT
All of the points you make above could be addressed simply by measures to improve the appallingly low propulsive efficiency that's a designed and built-in feature of virtually every modern day canalboat, and/or refraining from using the boat as a mobile laundry whilst on the move. Or, of course, there is the even better solution of installing a sensibly and adequately sized propulsion engine driving a well matched, efficient propellor of ideal diameter and adequate pitch, . . . 20 bhp is more than enough for a canalboat, river use included, and a separate, built-in genset to take care of your high load domestic needs. That would give you two separate sources of power with both of them running at, or at the very least a lot nearer, their optimum loading for best efficiency for most of the time either one or both are running. Nick surprises me that he didn't do his sums better when specifying his boat. He could of saved a fortune had he realised Launderettes are cheap and often close to a pub. All this overpowered engine, travelpower, big inverter, space draining and water wasting washing machine and tumble drier nonsense could have been avoided. In the 10 years of extended cruising away from home in Fenland (ans lately with a dwarf in tow) I would guess we have spent a shade over £150 on laundry. Around half of the cost of a reasonable washing machine let alone all the crap needed to drive the damn thing. For reference Johnson's do a big bag wash, dry, iron and fold for £13 in Ely, drop it off in the afternoon, collect at 08:00 next morning👍 Widow Twanky's in St Ives is opposite the Floods Tavern, they also do repairs and alterations while you wait 🍻🚢⚓ Mr G's in Brandon has a Bar, Restaurant and Ten Pin Bowling alley attached 🎳 We never hog a water point either Well I’m delighted that you get so much pleasure from sitting around in a damp smelly laundrette watching your washing go round and round and round and round - Oh and now round the other way! What a thrill! Oh and round again! Personally we prefer to spend our time cruising along the cut enjoying splendid views of plastic bags, dog poo and graffiti, cozy in the knowledge that our soiled underwear is getting a good pasting in the washing machine buried deep within our throbbing steel tube as we chug along.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 21:03:31 GMT
I'm with you on the laundrette issue, Gazza. I hate washing hanging about, so I'm quite happy to spend an hour and a half in a laundrette and come away with everything dry. Well I say 'in a laundrette'. Quite often that's in a cafe or pub nearby, but you get the idea. But very many people prefer to have their own laundry facilities on board, and why shouldn't they. The consequence of this and similar lifestyle choices is however the need for a travelpower pack or similar. I'll stick with the simple life Rog Edit cos Mr Telemachus came unexpectedly and confused me
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 21:14:14 GMT
Nick surprises me that he didn't do his sums better when specifying his boat. He could of saved a fortune had he realised Launderettes are cheap and often close to a pub. All this overpowered engine, travelpower, big inverter, space draining and water wasting washing machine and tumble drier nonsense could have been avoided. In the 10 years of extended cruising away from home in Fenland (ans lately with a dwarf in tow) I would guess we have spent a shade over £150 on laundry. Around half of the cost of a reasonable washing machine let alone all the crap needed to drive the damn thing. For reference Johnson's do a big bag wash, dry, iron and fold for £13 in Ely, drop it off in the afternoon, collect at 08:00 next morning👍 Widow Twanky's in St Ives is opposite the Floods Tavern, they also do repairs and alterations while you wait 🍻🚢⚓ Mr G's in Brandon has a Bar, Restaurant and Ten Pin Bowling alley attached 🎳 We never hog a water point either Well I’m delighted that you get so much pleasure from sitting around in a damp smelly laundrette watching your washing go round and round and round and round - Oh and now round the other way! What a thrill! Oh and round again! Personally we prefer to spend our time cruising along the cut enjoying splendid views of plastic bags, dog poo and graffiti, cozy in the knowledge that our soiled underwear is getting a good pasting in the washing machine buried deep within our throbbing steel tube as we chug along. Read my post a bit more carefully You don't have to babysit your washing once it's in the Machine and the cycle is running - besides, is anyone likely to want to steal your threads?! Ely is good, dump it at Johnson's, look round the Cathedral, grab a meal, go for a walk. Mooch around Ollie Cromwell's gaff, anything but sit with Dot Cotton 👍
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 21:18:19 GMT
I'll stick with the simple life Rog Edit cos Mr Telemachus came unexpectedly and confused me Quote from the other side... I think you are very wrong in your last para, there are many many full time live aboards of many years standing, myself for one at 72 years old have been living aboard with my wife and 2 dogs for close to 20 years our boat is 60' semi trad NB . Our motto has always been " we may live on a boat but we ain't camping
We have all the things that make life easy like washing machine, tumble dryer, full size 12v fridge full size 12v freezer etc etc
Phil
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Post by peterboat on Jan 2, 2018 22:35:02 GMT
I'll stick with the simple life Rog Edit cos Mr Telemachus came unexpectedly and confused me Quote from the other side... I think you are very wrong in your last para, there are many many full time live aboards of many years standing, myself for one at 72 years old have been living aboard with my wife and 2 dogs for close to 20 years our boat is 60' semi trad NB . Our motto has always been " we may live on a boat but we ain't camping
We have all the things that make life easy like washing machine, tumble dryer, full size 12v fridge full size 12v freezer etc etc
Phil Suspect thats Phil70 from this parish and he is right
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Post by quaysider on Jan 3, 2018 6:19:17 GMT
look, I can't sit around here all day going off on tangents... back to me...
then again, in the case of washer verses laundrette, I'm glad we've got the washer and dryer on board. The hoover 1600 spin has loads of options - including no heat (just whatever temp the calorifier chucks out) and can be altered from 14mins to nearly 4 hours - 4 hours? luckily, my pants are never THAT Bad!!!
The 4kg hotpoint drier works fine chugging along on half power (the drier, not the boat) and it's much nicer than have clothes laying around... AND some days, it gives me an excuse to go for a chug.
AS for the oil, that arrives today so I'll do a change and report back - meanwhile, I'm putting up lots of silly pointless signs to comply with "non-private" bss rules ffs. hmmf
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 6:37:16 GMT
look, I can't sit around here all day going off on tangents... back to me... then again, in the case of washer verses laundrette, I'm glad we've got the washer and dryer on board. The hoover 1600 spin has loads of options - including no heat (just whatever temp the calorifier chucks out) and can be altered from 14mins to nearly 4 hours - 4 hours? luckily, my pants are never THAT Bad!!! The 4kg hotpoint drier works fine chugging along on half power (the drier, not the boat) and it's much nicer than have clothes laying around... AND some days, it gives me an excuse to go for a chug. AS for the oil, that arrives today so I'll do a change and report back - meanwhile, I'm putting up lots of silly pointless signs to comply with "non-private" bss rules ffs. hmmf The most important sign is this one:- www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01N35JBHJ/ref=pd_aw_sim_sbs_60_1/260-8684419-6892266?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZJ5V0XMVKV0CJBBR7FYT&dpPl=1&dpID=61UnTKy8-PLSave a lot of bother and repeated explanations!
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Post by quaysider on Jan 3, 2018 6:54:45 GMT
look, I can't sit around here all day going off on tangents... back to me... then again, in the case of washer verses laundrette, I'm glad we've got the washer and dryer on board. The hoover 1600 spin has loads of options - including no heat (just whatever temp the calorifier chucks out) and can be altered from 14mins to nearly 4 hours - 4 hours? luckily, my pants are never THAT Bad!!! The 4kg hotpoint drier works fine chugging along on half power (the drier, not the boat) and it's much nicer than have clothes laying around... AND some days, it gives me an excuse to go for a chug. AS for the oil, that arrives today so I'll do a change and report back - meanwhile, I'm putting up lots of silly pointless signs to comply with "non-private" bss rules ffs. hmmf The most important sign is this one:- www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01N35JBHJ/ref=pd_aw_sim_sbs_60_1/260-8684419-6892266?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZJ5V0XMVKV0CJBBR7FYT&dpPl=1&dpID=61UnTKy8-PLSave a lot of bother and repeated explanations! Agreed!.... although oddly, thats NOT in the bss checklist
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jan 3, 2018 8:16:38 GMT
I'm not even going to bother replying to most of that load of rambling nonsense, but as for my opinion of modern, so-called boatbuilders, you're almost on the right lines, because I really don't think very much of them. The prize fools, however, are those buy their crappy products and then try so publicly and so hard to convince themselves that they've got something good in return for the vast sums of money they've forked out. In the mid 1930's Harland & Wolff at North Woolwich and Yarwoods at Northwich turned out a largish number of motor narrowboats, capable of towing another similar but unpowered vessel and with a combined payload of up to almost 70 tons on the two, at 6 knots on adequately deep water with engines producing a mere 18 bhp. Today's piss poor imitations, with well under half the total displacement of a pair of fully loaded narrowboats, need around twice that horsepower to drag themselves along at somewhere near to similar speeds in similar depths. Do you really think that's something the creators of these so-called 'narrowboats' should be proud of, and is it what you're referring to when you say that "things have moved on" ? You really are very pleased with yourself! However you are all talk and no action. You have never built a leisure boat, which is a good thing because you have no idea what customers want. I really don’t give a fuck if a historic boat drawing 3’ or so (with corresponding big diameter prop) is more efficient in deep water. I’m sure it probably is, but you are too thick to see that that is of no consequence for a leisure boat. I don’t want to cruise around in the aquatic equivalent of a dumper truck, and neither do most other people. You quite old and are stuck in the past. Shame, but fairly normal for old codgers I suppose. Personally we prefer to spend our time cruising along the cut enjoying splendid views of plastic bags, dog poo and graffiti, cozy in the knowledge that our soiled underwear is getting a good pasting in the washing machine buried deep within our throbbing steel tube as we chug along. Oh dear, . . . confusion and incontinence. Given that you've just inadvertently revealed the necessity for you to get from one bog emptying station to the next as quickly as possible, I'm surprised you aren't more receptive to idea's and suggestions on how you could improve your boat's propulsive efficiency.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jan 3, 2018 8:44:09 GMT
look, I can't sit around here all day going off on tangents... back to me... then again, in the case of washer verses laundrette, I'm glad we've got the washer and dryer on board. The hoover 1600 spin has loads of options - including no heat (just whatever temp the calorifier chucks out) and can be altered from 14mins to nearly 4 hours - 4 hours? luckily, my pants are never THAT Bad!!! The 4kg hotpoint drier works fine chugging along on half power (the drier, not the boat) and it's much nicer than have clothes laying around... AND some days, it gives me an excuse to go for a chug. AS for the oil, that arrives today so I'll do a change and report back - meanwhile, I'm putting up lots of silly pointless signs to comply with "non-private" bss rules ffs. hmmf The most important sign is this one:- www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01N35JBHJ/ref=pd_aw_sim_sbs_60_1/260-8684419-6892266?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZJ5V0XMVKV0CJBBR7FYT&dpPl=1&dpID=61UnTKy8-PLSave a lot of bother and repeated explanations! Surely, compliance with that sign makes having the bog rather pointless, does it not ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 9:15:28 GMT
Surely, compliance with that sign makes having the bog rather pointless, does it not ? Taken literally yes! But, in an effort to stop stupid people putting wet wipes, sanitary towels, tampons and nappies down Quaysiders prize throne it's probably a good idea.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 9:40:33 GMT
I'll stick with the simple life Rog Edit cos Mr Telemachus came unexpectedly and confused me Quote from the other side... I think you are very wrong in your last para, there are many many full time live aboards of many years standing, myself for one at 72 years old have been living aboard with my wife and 2 dogs for close to 20 years our boat is 60' semi trad NB . Our motto has always been " we may live on a boat but we ain't camping
We have all the things that make life easy like washing machine, tumble dryer, full size 12v fridge full size 12v freezer etc etc
Phil Sorry, but that confused me. Quote from 'the other side' of what, and by whom ? And I actually said many people wish to have the travel power pack and all mod cons, and why not. Therefore my choice of 'the simple life' cannot be wrong, but merely my choice. Rog
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 9:46:24 GMT
Quote from the other side... I think you are very wrong in your last para, there are many many full time live aboards of many years standing, myself for one at 72 years old have been living aboard with my wife and 2 dogs for close to 20 years our boat is 60' semi trad NB . Our motto has always been " we may live on a boat but we ain't camping
We have all the things that make life easy like washing machine, tumble dryer, full size 12v fridge full size 12v freezer etc etc
Phil Sorry, but that confused me. Quote from 'the other side' of what, and by whom ? And I actually said many people wish to have the travel power pack and all mod cons, and why not. Therefore my choice of 'the simple life' cannot be wrong, but merely my choice. Rog It was a quote from Flappy on CDWF, meant really to highlight that we can all choose how simple our life might be.
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