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Post by freewind on Dec 29, 2018 9:39:08 GMT
This strikes me as the most efficient cooling system,and also the most cost effective. it is also unfortunately the most prone to damage especially if the steel is thin...... a not unusual occurrence when cooling pipes are used on the outside of a hull as well (not saying don't do it .... just make it robust) You raise a valid point. I always sail solo,(family have no interest) and when locking usually put the bow against the lock gates to save walking and avoid shallow edges,securing a line to whatevers handy.(usually the lock beam or paddle winding post) Last summer coming down the HNC I tied up as usual at a lock (I think it was lock 24 on the Huddersfield Narrow) and the stern drifted towards the bywash as it usually does,and in this case was the same distance from the lock gate as my boat's length.(30ft) The counter went over the bywash,and filling the lock dropped the level of the pound enough to get stuck. Got the stern line off and couldn't shift it.luckily a couple of passers by lent a hand and pulled my boat off the bywash. If my boat had had a keel cooling matrix fitted on that side then I could well imagine it being damaged in the event I have described. I thought that I had the cooling sorted in my head,but now I am having doubts. But,thanks for your input.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Dec 29, 2018 10:18:50 GMT
it is also unfortunately the most prone to damage especially if the steel is thin...... a not unusual occurrence when cooling pipes are used on the outside of a hull as well (not saying don't do it .... just make it robust) You raise a valid point. I always sail solo,(family have no interest) and when locking usually put the bow against the lock gates to save walking and avoid shallow edges,securing a line to whatevers handy.(usually the lock beam or paddle winding post) Last summer coming down the HNC I tied up as usual at a lock (I think it was lock 24 on the Huddersfield Narrow) and the stern drifted towards the bywash as it usually does,and in this case was the same distance from the lock gate as my boat's length.(30ft) The counter went over the bywash,and filling the lock dropped the level of the pound enough to get stuck. Got the stern line off and couldn't shift it.luckily a couple of passers by lent a hand and pulled my boat off the bywash. If my boat had had a keel cooling matrix fitted on that side then I could well imagine it being damaged in the event I have described. I thought that I had the cooling sorted in my head,but now I am having doubts. But,thanks for your input. How soon do you need to make a decision about this ? There are other alternatives open to you that would or could be less costly than the fabrication work needed on your hull for skintank or keelcooling. A suitably modified, built-in commercial/working boat style mudbox and an engine cooling heat exchanger is one option.
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Post by Jim on Dec 29, 2018 10:44:19 GMT
freewind, are you moored up north then, or just visiting?
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Post by freewind on Dec 29, 2018 11:49:17 GMT
Tony Dunkley The boat is coming out for blacking next spring,and it was then that I was thinking of having keel cooling fitted.Your suggestion of a mudbox and heat exchanger will of course mean a sealed cooling system and not have filthy canal water circulating the cooling passages of my engine,however,the problem of inlet blockage will remain.It is a problem.Last Autumn,I was on the Peak Forest Canal,and it was a carpet of leaves with steam coming from the water outlet,I had to make frequent stops to clear the inlet strainers.To get at the strainers and water filter on my boat involves lifting the steel deckplates and grovelling around on my knees,crawling to the side to rinse the filters in the cut (avoiding the now open engine hole)and replace everything. Hence my desire for a completely sealed cooling system. jimriley Moored in Huddersfild
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Post by freewind on Dec 29, 2018 13:00:20 GMT
Tony Dunkley The boat is coming out for blacking next spring,and it was then that I was thinking of having keel cooling fitted.Your suggestion of a mudbox and heat exchanger will of course mean a sealed cooling system and not have filthy canal water circulating the cooling passages of my engine,however,the problem of inlet blockage will remain.It is a problem.Last Autumn,I was on the Peak Forest Canal,and it was a carpet of leaves with steam coming from the water outlet,I had to make frequent stops to clear the inlet strainers.To get at the strainers and water filter on my boat involves lifting the steel deckplates and grovelling around on my knees,crawling to the side to rinse the filters in the cut (avoiding the now open engine hole)and replace everything. Hence my desire for a completely sealed cooling system. jimriley Moored in Huddersfild Hope I am not coming across as an ungrateful "know it all" I do appreciate your advice. A few years ago I could have quite happily tackled all the necessary work myself,but now,with stiffening back,hips,knees,and ankles (don't reckon owt to this getting old business) I would have to pay to have it done.Labour cost alone at my mooring is Β£46 per hour +VAT. If the cost of keel cooling/skin tank is going to be prohibitively expensive,then a more attractive option is to simply to sell my present boat and look for a more modern one with the features I want.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Dec 29, 2018 16:47:30 GMT
Tony Dunkley The boat is coming out for blacking next spring,and it was then that I was thinking of having keel cooling fitted.Your suggestion of a mudbox and heat exchanger will of course mean a sealed cooling system and not have filthy canal water circulating the cooling passages of my engine,however,the problem of inlet blockage will remain.It is a problem.Last Autumn,I was on the Peak Forest Canal,and it was a carpet of leaves with steam coming from the water outlet,I had to make frequent stops to clear the inlet strainers.To get at the strainers and water filter on my boat involves lifting the steel deckplates and grovelling around on my knees,crawling to the side to rinse the filters in the cut (avoiding the now open engine hole)and replace everything. Hence my desire for a completely sealed cooling system. jimriley Moored in Huddersfild Hope I am not coming across as an ungrateful "know it all" I do appreciate your advice. A few years ago I could have quite happily tackled all the necessary work myself,but now,with stiffening back,hips,knees,and ankles (don't reckon owt to this getting old business) I would have to pay to have it done.Labour cost alone at my mooring is Β£46 per hour +VAT. If the cost of keel cooling/skin tank is going to be prohibitively expensive,then a more attractive option is to simply to sell my present boat and look for a more modern one with the features I want. No, not at all, . . the only reason I didn't reply earlier is because I was busy with something else. I know what you mean about getting old, . . I can still get down and into awkward spaces to work on things, but it's not so easy these days getting back out again. Regardless of the layout of your boat, there will be things that can be done, or altered, to alleviate the problems associated with cooling water stoppages. The builders and outfitters of canal pleasure craft have always stuck to smallcraft river and coastal practice when fitting direct or heat exchanger cooled engines, and this simply doesn't work anything like as well as the intake and straining systems that were standard on inland commercials from motor narrowboats working on the small canals to barges and tugs on the rivers and estuaries. As you're not having your boat out of the water until the Spring, there is plenty of time for you consider all the options in the meantime. Positioning and total opening area of intakes is everything, and well designed, and located, intakes on canal craft can be arranged so that most of the muck causing the stoppages accumulates over the intake and externally to the hull plating, and can be cleared by either a short burst astern or by wielding a mop or stiff brush over the side in the right spot. One potential source of cooling water which is generally overlooked on today's canal pleasure craft is the weed hatch, . . it's well away from any mud/sand/silt that the boat moves through or over, and is constantly washed clean externally by propeller action.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 17:13:39 GMT
I have a small diesel generator that I never plumbed in properly. Its an indirect cooled unit using canal water. I just hang a hose over side of boat but must admit I had been eyeing up the weed hatch as quite a nice option for fitting an intake.
However I am not entirely convinced by the idea of using this area for intake for the propulsion engine. It seems to me that the turbulence in the area might cause some problems for pump suction and availality of water. I suppose it could also be beneficial in that it would be unlikely to get blocked.
I feel this would want designing properly.
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Post by Jim on Dec 29, 2018 17:21:43 GMT
Huddersfield eh? Aspley marina or the moorings on the way in? Came up there earlier last summer. Going for a trip out on Sunday, probably just to Brighouse but you never know, weather (river) willing. I'm moored at 35/36 pound on the Rochdale, one lock down from Summit east end. Just on the sunny side of the border (west). We generally come out into Yorkshire, last trip was to Lemonroyd on the Aire.
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Post by freewind on Dec 29, 2018 19:47:45 GMT
Tony Dunkley, Yes using the weedhatch as a cooling water intake sounds like an excellent idea.I never thought of that! Magnetman thinks there could be a problem with turbulence within the weed hatch,but it will not be difficult to drill a suitable hole in the lid and fit a connection either bolted or welded to take a strainer tube and "suck it and see" There is a baffle plate at the lower end of the weed hatch,so I can't see that turbulence will be a problem. Checking the strainer for weed will involve lifting the weed hatch lid. On my boat this is quite accessible. A tubular strainer may be too long for the weed hatch,but perhaps a flat filter,rather like a sump oil filter that is fitted to some motorcycles or the type fitted to the old Volkswagen Beetle resting on the baffle plate would fit the bill. Many thanks for that idea,I will try it out over the next week or so.
Actually,there is no need to drill the weed hatch lid. There is already a connection in the front face of the weed hatch where the bilge pump outlet is connected.For the purpose of this experiment,I can temporarily dispense with the bilge pump and connect the hose to the Jabsco pump to this and a suitable piece of hose inside the weed hatch. It will be interesting to see if it works,and if it does,then design a proper set up.
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Post by freewind on Dec 29, 2018 19:56:55 GMT
Huddersfield eh? Aspley marina or the moorings on the way in? Came up there earlier last summer. Going for a trip out on Sunday, probably just to Brighouse but you never know, weather (river) willing. I'm moored at 35/36 pound on the Rochdale, one lock down from Summit east end. Just on the sunny side of the border (west). We generally come out into Yorkshire, last trip was to Lemonroyd on the Aire. Yes, Aspley. If you are in the virginity,just chug along slowly and shout "pillock" and out of the half dozen or so heads that pop up and shout "what d'ya want" mine should be one of them.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Dec 29, 2018 20:02:11 GMT
Tony Dunkley's imaginary firm of no-win, no-fee libel solicitors, as recommended by his imaginary friend won't be taking legal action against me, any more than PLA did- his vacuous posts are simple the typical inane delusions of an Alzheimer's Disease sufferer. Any theoretical legal action which did happen could be nipped in the bud in an instant with a defence of "fair comment". Leaving aside the rest of the drivel in post < thunderboat.boards.net/post/150710/thread >, I'm curious about your reference to the PLA. Precisely where, and how, do they come into any of this, and above all, when was there ever any suggestion, threat, mention, or anything else, at any time, that the PLA had any cause to take any sort of 'legal action' against you ? A question for Mr Snot-for-Brains; will you be replying to this query about why you have introduced the Port of London Authority into this topic, . . or is there some reason why you would rather not ?
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Post by Jim on Dec 29, 2018 20:27:00 GMT
Huddersfield eh? Aspley marina or the moorings on the way in? Came up there earlier last summer. Going for a trip out on Sunday, probably just to Brighouse but you never know, weather (river) willing. I'm moored at 35/36 pound on the Rochdale, one lock down from Summit east end. Just on the sunny side of the border (west). We generally come out into Yorkshire, last trip was to Lemonroyd on the Aire. Yes, Aspley. If you are in the virginity,just chug along slowly and shout "pillock" and out of the half dozen or so heads that pop up and shout "what d'ya want" mine should be one of them. Nah! I'll shout "twat" and only one head will pop up. ππππ
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 20:32:36 GMT
Leaving aside the rest of the drivel in post < thunderboat.boards.net/post/150710/thread >, I'm curious about your reference to the PLA. Precisely where, and how, do they come into any of this, and above all, when was there ever any suggestion, threat, mention, or anything else, at any time, that the PLA had any cause to take any sort of 'legal action' against you ? A question for Mr Snot-for-Brains; will you be replying to this query about why you have introduced the Port of London Authority into this topic, . . or is there some reason why you would rather not ? You really want people to believe you are a twat don't you.
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Post by naughtyfox on Dec 29, 2018 21:14:33 GMT
Huddersfield eh? Aspley marina or the moorings on the way in? Came up there earlier last summer. Going for a trip out on Sunday, probably just to Brighouse but you never know, weather (river) willing. I'm moored at 35/36 pound on the Rochdale, one lock down from Summit east end. Just on the sunny side of the border (west). We generally come out into Yorkshire, last trip was to Lemonroyd on the Aire. Yes, Aspley. If you are in the virginity,just chug along slowly and shout "pillock" and out of the half dozen or so heads that pop up and shout "what d'ya want" mine should be one of them. Little Buddha and Pioneer are moored at Aspley. I know these things.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 21:28:15 GMT
There is a baffle plate at the lower end of the weed hatch,so I can't see that turbulence will be a problem. Checking the strainer for weed will involve lifting the weed hatch lid. On my boat this is quite accessible. Why not just fit the strainer inboard rather than below the weed hatch top. The obvious problem with this is it means you would have to have a suitably flexible connection or perhaps some sort of quick release arrangement if you wish to use the weed hatch for its designed purpose which normally involves complete removal. I personally prefer to clear the prop with a sharpened boat hook but there are times when access to the weed hatch is necessary. My comment about turbulence was related to the fact that the jabsco (type) pump is a positive displacement type. If the weed hatch baffle plate is a close fit to the Uxter plate I think some problems could arise with replacing the water drawn out of the weedhatch cavity itself. It could work a bit like a mud box but it would depend on the baffle plate and the gap around it.
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