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Post by TonyDunkley on Feb 6, 2019 10:35:17 GMT
The PLA were aware of the incident from almost immediately after it happened, . . . they didn't want, or need, him to 'report' anything other than the circumstances, procedures, instructions and advice that caused him to be put into a potentially dangerous situation which he wasn't able or competent enough to deal with. As I've said before, their only concern, and intention, was to reduce to the greatest extent possible, the chances of repeats of similar dangerous incidents. The PLA did everything they could to achieve this end, and the only real impediment to that process was Stabby's idiotic refusal to co-operate in any way. Did THEY ask him too? Sorry, if I can’t be bothered to go over hundreds of old posts again. The answer to that is no, they (the PLA) didn't ask him (Stabby) anything because they couldn't identify the boat or talk to the owner before he left their jurisdiction, and because he didn't contact them to report the incident at or as soon after the time it happened as practicable, . . and then refused to comply with later requests for him to speak to them via my posts on this forum. All the PLA wanted to do was establish why and how the incident came about so they could identify any problems there might be with existing procedures and traffic control measures in order to reduce the chances of recurrences. Mr Stupid, however, convinced himself that the incident was minor and insignificant, and flatly refused to co-operate with any requests, or even comply with the PLA Byelaws by reporting the incident to them. For anyone who's inclined to go along with the 'Stabby' view of this incident, it should be remembered that 51 people died on 20 August 1989 when the 'Marchioness' collided with a dredger only a few hundred yards away from the bridge pier that he was carried into by a potentially lethal combination of tide and wind, plus a general lack of preparation, knowledge, and experience.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 11:59:54 GMT
Did THEY ask him too? Sorry, if I can’t be bothered to go over hundreds of old posts again. The answer to that is no, they (the PLA) didn't ask him (Stabby) anything because they couldn't identify the boat or talk to the owner before he left their jurisdiction, and because he didn't contact them to report the incident at or as soon after the time it happened as practicable, . . and then refused to comply with later requests for him to speak to them via my posts on this forum. All the PLA wanted to do was establish why and how the incident came about so they could identify any problems there might be with existing procedures and traffic control measures in order to reduce the chances of recurrences. Mr Stupid, however, convinced himself that the incident was minor and insignificant, and flatly refused to co-operate with any requests, or even comply with the PLA Byelaws by reporting the incident to them. For anyone who's inclined to go along with the 'Stabby' view of this incident, it should be remembered that 51 people died on 20 August 1989 when the 'Marchioness' collided with a dredger only a few hundred yards away from the bridge pier that he was carried into by a potentially lethal combination of tide and wind, plus a general lack of preparation, knowledge, and experience. Which is why I was wondering what you would suggest for first timers doing that stretch? Or do you believe narrow boats should be banned from navigating that section?
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Post by rockdodger on Feb 6, 2019 12:32:32 GMT
I am more than certain that if the PLA as a navigation authority needed to speak with Mr Stabby about a incident at Blackfriars Bridge they would be more than capable of tracking him down and speaking with him themselves without having to rely on a third party posting on a narrow boat forum.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Feb 6, 2019 12:45:49 GMT
I am more than certain that if the PLA as a navigation authority needed to speak with Mr Stabby about a incident at Blackfriars Bridge they would be more than capable of tracking him down and speaking with him themselves without having to rely on a third party posting on a narrow boat forum. Oh, are you really ! Perhaps you would care to explain how, . . . both I and the PLA's Assistant Harbour Master obviously lack your insight.
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Post by rockdodger on Feb 6, 2019 13:22:21 GMT
I am more than certain that if the PLA as a navigation authority needed to speak with Mr Stabby about a incident at Blackfriars Bridge they would be more than capable of tracking him down and speaking with him themselves without having to rely on a third party posting on a narrow boat forum. Oh, are you really ! Perhaps you would care to explain how, . . . both I and the PLA's Assistant Harbour Master obviously lack your insight. Ok then Tony, I will take your word then that the PLA, isnt capable of tracking down a narrowboat and its owner after being made aware of a possible incident they were involved in, at or near Blackfriars bridge without having to rely on a third party posting on a narrow boat forum. Happy?😇
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Post by JohnV on Feb 6, 2019 13:58:19 GMT
"He didn’t realise that he could use the arch showing no lights." So why don't the PLA put up a big sign saying 'non commercial pleasure craft use this arch' above the arch? This suggests to me that there is room for improvement in the PLA's approach to safety. sometimes Ross you do spout rubbish the lights are used to indicate where you should not go ........ and these change depending on circumstances (several of these signs were refurbished and improved just last year) notices to mariners are always available giving the latest river works and they are also regularly repeated on VHF (another good reason for having at least a hand held on board) The PLA have plenty of faults but they have always been pretty hot on river safety and they have also been pretty good at promulgating warnings and correct procedures (more than can be said for CRT) but they cannot be held responsible for the uninformed and those who think they can go where they want .... both commercial and private.
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 6, 2019 15:24:27 GMT
"He didn’t realise that he could use the arch showing no lights." So why don't the PLA put up a big sign saying 'non commercial pleasure craft use this arch' above the arch? This suggests to me that there is room for improvement in the PLA's approach to safety. sometimes John you do spout rubbish the lights are used to indicate where you should not go ........ The green arrows show you where you SHOULD go! So what about an arch with no markings, no arrows, no lights, nothing - safe to go through, or a TRAP? Arches A, H, J and K are showing no lights - yet everyone is saying Stabby was supposed to go through the arch WITH NO LIGHTS OR MARKINGS. I am saying, in the interest of avoiding ambiguity, in the case of Blackfriar's Bridge the PLA should go and hang a bleedin' great sign up above the 'dark' arch saying "This way, lovely narrowboaters!" (ps - I do agree with TD's view - but I also believe the PLA ought to clarify things - they want to sort out their web pages for starters!)
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 6, 2019 15:33:57 GMT
I am more than certain that if the PLA as a navigation authority needed to speak with Mr Stabby about a incident at Blackfriars Bridge they would be more than capable of tracking him down and speaking with him themselves without having to rely on a third party posting on a narrow boat forum. Oh, are you really ! Perhaps you would care to explain how, . . . both I and the PLA's Assistant Harbour Master obviously lack your insight. You said they were aware of the incident. How many narrowboats went from East to West along that stretch of the Thames on that day? Are there no records of request to launch from Limehouse? Who gave Stabby permission to leave Limehouse? I'd have thought it dead easy to track down such a narrowboat.
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 6, 2019 15:40:00 GMT
Assuming Stabby did contact the PLA and report his incident, what would happen then? . . . . . . . The PLA were aware of the incident from almost immediately after it happened... ... their only concern, and intention, was to reduce to the greatest extent possible, the chances of repeats of similar dangerous incidents. The PLA did everything they could to achieve this end Hardly 'everything' - they still haven't made it clear which arch narrow boats are supposed to go through!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 15:41:12 GMT
Oh, are you really ! Perhaps you would care to explain how, . . . both I and the PLA's Assistant Harbour Master obviously lack your insight. Ok then Tony, I will take your word then that the PLA, isnt capable of tracking down a narrowboat and its owner after being made aware of a possible incident they were involved in, at or near Blackfriars bridge without having to rely on a third party posting on a narrow boat forum. Happy?😇 Telephone "Hello Limehouse marina. PLA here. Could you please give us names of any canal boats exiting your lock inward bound today. Ta." "Hello CRT, PLA here. Please could you give us the owner details for the little green narrow boat named after a red potato. Ta."
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Post by JohnV on Feb 6, 2019 15:53:47 GMT
Ok then Tony, I will take your word then that the PLA, isnt capable of tracking down a narrowboat and its owner after being made aware of a possible incident they were involved in, at or near Blackfriars bridge without having to rely on a third party posting on a narrow boat forum. Happy?😇 Telephone "Hello Limehouse marina. PLA here. Could you please give us names of any canal boats exiting your lock inward bound today. Ta." "Hello CRT, PLA here. Please could you give us the owner details for the little green narrow boat named after a red potato. Ta." errrr judging from my leaving Limehouse into the tideway ...... I was never asked a damn thing ...... I could have been tracked but only because I was talking to London VTS
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 15:55:44 GMT
I've always booked Limehouse in advance by giving boat name and phone number to the Marina office. I thought that was normal procedure. Maybe it isn't and you can just turn up and go. A bit naff off me not to know that . As for the PLA they will have CCTV and reports from other river users if anything unusual happens so they will have known about the incident but possibly not been able to get the boat name.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 6, 2019 16:00:03 GMT
sometimes John you do spout rubbish the lights are used to indicate where you should not go ........ The green arrows show you where you SHOULD go! So what about an arch with no markings, no arrows, no lights, nothing - safe to go through, or a TRAP? Arches A, H, J and K are showing no lights - yet everyone is saying Stabby was supposed to go through the arch WITH NO LIGHTS OR MARKINGS. I am saying, in the interest of avoiding ambiguity, in the case of Blackfriar's Bridge the PLA should go and hang a bleedin' great sign up above the 'dark' arch saying "This way, lovely narrowboaters!" (ps - I do agree with TD's view - but I also believe the PLA ought to clarify things - they want to sort out their web pages for starters!) the barrier is a one off special case. ........ there are umpteen bridges in London and the existing system is based on expecting people to know the signs. (and to get the PLA's guide for river users) ..... which is very good. They are used to dealing with people who do a little research and not blindly go out expecting everything to be explained to them in baby language.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 6, 2019 16:03:16 GMT
I've always booked Limehouse in advance by giving boat name and phone number to the Marina office. I thought that was normal procedure. Maybe it isn't and you can just turn up and go. A bit naff off me not to know that . As for the PLA they will have CCTV and reports from other river users if anything unusual happens so they will have known about the incident but possibly not been able to get the boat name. I just moored up, walked along to the lock office said I was a 25 foot cruiser and wanted to leave next morning earliest possible .... they just said be here at 5.30 .... and that was that
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 16:05:01 GMT
Fair enough. When was that ?
I've been through LH a few times each year for the last ten years and always been asked for boat name and number. This seems a good arrangement.
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