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Post by JohnV on Feb 5, 2021 12:00:44 GMT
Are you sure? I can’t find a figure by google. The ones I find include Wales, whilst your chart is for just England? ONS figures allways include Wales .... Northern Ireland and Scotland are treated separately
I did a rough check by taking the weekly figures published by the ONS but to be honest I gave up halfway as it's a mammoth task
The total I used was published by the Guardian (and generally their figures are about right) and they seem to have based it on ONS data .... they must just have more determination than me ! (or just more time on their hands)
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Post by ianali on Feb 5, 2021 12:01:58 GMT
Are you sure? I can’t find a figure by google. The ones I find include Wales, whilst your chart is for just England? ONS figures allways include Wales .... Northern Ireland and Scotland are treated separately
I did a rough check by taking the weekly figures published by the ONS but to be honest I gave up halfway as it's a mammoth task
The total I used was published by the Guardian (and generally their figures are about right) and they seem to have based it on ONS data .... they must just have more determination than me ! (or just more time on their hands)
Your chart states England!
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Post by JohnV on Feb 5, 2021 12:03:15 GMT
just to add, when I post any "facts" re Covid, I try and make sure they come from a reliable source and not just Foxes news or the like
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Post by JohnV on Feb 5, 2021 12:04:23 GMT
ONS figures allways include Wales .... Northern Ireland and Scotland are treated separately
I did a rough check by taking the weekly figures published by the ONS but to be honest I gave up halfway as it's a mammoth task
The total I used was published by the Guardian (and generally their figures are about right) and they seem to have based it on ONS data .... they must just have more determination than me ! (or just more time on their hands)
Your chart states England! It's an ONS chart and as such always classes England and Wales as one unit
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Post by ianali on Feb 5, 2021 12:08:28 GMT
Your chart states England! It's an ONS chart and as such always classes England and Wales as one unit Guardian graph, says England and Wales(unlike the one you posted). Anyway, looking at mid 1980s the deaths in 2020 are not much higher, are they?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 12:14:49 GMT
It's an ONS chart and as such always classes England and Wales as one unit Guardian graph, says England and Wales(unlike the one you posted). Anyway, looking at mid 1980s the deaths in 2020 are not much higher, are they? If you compare 2019 to 2020 it was still a large jump, one of the largest on record (even though significant measures were taken to control the virus).
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Post by ianali on Feb 5, 2021 12:16:01 GMT
It's an ONS chart and as such always classes England and Wales as one unit Guardian graph, says England and Wales(unlike the one you posted). Anyway, looking at mid 1980s the deaths in 2020 are not much higher, are they? Anyway, no wish to argue this all day. I just get annoyed when stats are rolled out in the media shouting most deaths in the world ever etc. Anyone with a brain can see that the covid deaths have been exaggerated. But media keeps shouting it and then people like Ali’s mum and our next door neighbours believe that half the population have died. Ali’s mum asked her the other day if many had died in our close? Mad!
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Post by ianali on Feb 5, 2021 12:17:14 GMT
Guardian graph, says England and Wales(unlike the one you posted). Anyway, looking at mid 1980s the deaths in 2020 are not much higher, are they? If you compare 2019 to 2020 it was still a large jump, one of the largest on record (even though significant measures were taken to control the virus). Yes large jump, what you reckon? 60,000?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 12:19:54 GMT
If you compare 2019 to 2020 it was still a large jump, one of the largest on record (even though significant measures were taken to control the virus). Yes large jump, what you reckon? 60,000? Closer to 80k (2019 was 530k).
That is a 15% increase in deaths year on year - not a statistic to be sneezed at...
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Post by ianali on Feb 5, 2021 12:29:07 GMT
Yes large jump, what you reckon? 60,000? Closer to 80k (2019 was 530k).
ok. Anyway, as I said, I know covid killed people. Approx 1 in 1000... Needs keeping in perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 12:32:40 GMT
Closer to 80k (2019 was 530k).
ok. Anyway, as I said, I know covid killed people. Approx 1 in 1000... Needs keeping in perspective. Agreed. My main argument is against those that think the efforts to control the virus are pointless. I do believe things would have been so much worse if those actions hadn't been taken.
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Post by bodger on Feb 5, 2021 13:01:52 GMT
ok. Anyway, as I said, I know covid killed people. Approx 1 in 1000... Needs keeping in perspective. Agreed. My main argument is against those that think the efforts to control the virus are pointless. I do believe things would have been so much worse if those actions hadn't been taken.
..... but a huge bunch of idiots still can't get it into their heads.
Suggesting that all the old folk should be allowed to die (a painful death) in order to "save the NHS" so that cancer patients and the like can get treatment is utterly ridiculous. If there had been no restrictions the NHS would have been buried under dead octagenarians months ago.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 14:02:03 GMT
Agreed. My main argument is against those that think the efforts to control the virus are pointless. I do believe things would have been so much worse if those actions hadn't been taken.
..... but a huge bunch of idiots still can't get it into their heads.
Suggesting that all the old folk should be allowed to die (a painful death) in order to "save the NHS" so that cancer patients and the like can get treatment is utterly ridiculous. If there had been no restrictions the NHS would have been buried under dead octagenarians months ago.
How many people will die (a painful death) due to cancelled operations, scans and treatment? Will the NHS be overburdened due to the above caused by the measures taken? How many will be driven to suicide due to losing their buisnesses, jobs and homes? I suspect you don't have the answer as I doubt any of us (including government) know. They are still valid questions. Lets hope they got it right.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 5, 2021 14:14:00 GMT
..... but a huge bunch of idiots still can't get it into their heads.
Suggesting that all the old folk should be allowed to die (a painful death) in order to "save the NHS" so that cancer patients and the like can get treatment is utterly ridiculous. If there had been no restrictions the NHS would have been buried under dead octagenarians months ago.
How many people will die (a painful death) due to cancelled operations, scans and treatment? Will the NHS be overburdened due to the above caused by the measures taken? How many will be driven to suicide due to losing their buisnesses, jobs and homes? I suspect you don't have the answer as I doubt any of us (including government) know. They are still valid questions. Lets hope they got it right. If nothing was done, the NHS would have collapsed under the load and all those deaths would still have accrued in addition to a sizeable percentage of those who have been hospitalised with and survived Covid19
All scenarios are grim. There are no simple answers. in five years time we might be able (assuming we're still allive) to look back and calculate which would have been the best course of action.
Until then the best bet is to follow the science.
Mostly our politicians have done this, some things very well, some things so so, some things badly ........ shouting the odds with 20:20 hindsight is unpleasant to see but not unexpected in the very mucky world of politics
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 14:33:25 GMT
Diane Abbott lately had some online rally shouting about the government's handling of the covid crisis. Last I saw of her was after the election where she resigned her post as shadow foreign secretary and declared her happiness about returning to serve her constituency. "There's so much left to do" she trilled. It doesn't seem like she's doing it though. But you just know for sure that, had the shoe been on the other foot (that Labour had won the election), the tories would be using the same blatantly knee-jerk tactics. Because that's politics that is.
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