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Post by Jim on Dec 30, 2021 15:21:51 GMT
My insurance is due, my survey is now more than 5 years old, can't/couldn't get to dry dock last year for survey. Emailed craftinsure, they've given me a years grace to get a survey before renewal in '23. £66 extra, but that will do me to keep fully comp. Aiming to get 2 packed this year.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 18:56:21 GMT
So is Quaysider.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Dec 31, 2021 19:55:12 GMT
My insurer wants a survey next time around. According to Tony Dunkley, this is because the good folk in the offices at Tokio Marine Holdings in Japan sit around all day reading Thunderboat and have decided from my posts that I am a bad risk. Personally I'm more inclined to think that it's because my boat will be 35 years old next year and that is the age at which Tokio Marine Holdings require a survey. Not sure what to do yet. I was originally insured with Towergate/ Equity Red Star and they wanted a survey at 30 years old so I fucked them off out of it. Their loss, innit? It may be that I will find an insurer who will insure boats up to 40 years old without a survey. As time goes by they do seem to be pushing the age limits out, 25 years was common when I bought my boat. Otherwise I will just go Third Party Only, monitor Dogless's itinerary with grave suspicion, and adjust my own cruising plan accordingly.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Dec 31, 2021 21:05:22 GMT
How does the 'third party' work? Damage to other boats/structures/persons from the movement of the boat? Doesn't pay for any loss or damage to the insured's boat. Covers damage caused to third parties or their property. Covers recovery if the boat sinks in a lock etc as this is a third-party loss.
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Post by peterboat on Dec 31, 2021 21:07:39 GMT
How does the 'third party' work? Damage to other boats/structures/persons from the movement of the boat? If your boat is sunk/lost/stolen/total loss you get nowt, also you have to pay to raise it, not a good option as raising boats can be expensive
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Post by peterboat on Dec 31, 2021 21:10:10 GMT
How does the 'third party' work? Damage to other boats/structures/persons from the movement of the boat? Doesn't pay for any loss or damage to the insured's boat. Covers damage caused to third parties or their property. Covers recovery if the boat sinks in a lock etc as this is a third-party loss. check the small print we jast had one sunk at moorings insurance didnt cover recovery its very common on 3rd party, its cost Rowan 1700 squids for a plastic cruiser
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Post by patty on Jan 1, 2022 7:39:32 GMT
My insurer wants a survey next time around. According to Tony Dunkley, this is because the good folk in the offices at Tokio Marine Holdings in Japan sit around all day reading Thunderboat and have decided from my posts that I am a bad risk. Personally I'm more inclined to think that it's because my boat will be 35 years old next year and that is the age at which Tokio Marine Holdings require a survey. Not sure what to do yet. I was originally insured with Towergate/ Equity Red Star and they wanted a survey at 30 years old so I fucked them off out of it. Their loss, innit? It may be that I will find an insurer who will insure boats up to 40 years old without a survey. As time goes by they do seem to be pushing the age limits out, 25 years was common when I bought my boat. Otherwise I will just go Third Party Only, monitor Dogless's itinerary with grave suspicion, and adjust my own cruising plan accordingly. Why don't u just have it surveyed?.. Reading the later posts u could be in a real mess if u opt for 3rd party... its not as if your boat sits on its mooring all year, u cruise for..what 5/6 months?...
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Post by JohnV on Jan 1, 2022 9:23:49 GMT
^ agree ..... a survey finds three types of things .... Faults you already know about and are prepared to ignore Faults you don't know about but are still prepared to ignore Faults you don't know about and bring you out in a cold sweat because you didn't know. You presumably have a good scout round when you drydock so you should know the majority of the ageing problems You presumably will be blacking anyway soon, so why not see if the yard you are going to has an ultrasonic tester and can either test or lend/rent it to you so that you can do your own ultrasonic survey of the base plate and footings and check carefully for pitting. Often you will find corrosion/wear is over limited areas and often can be corrected by a "wear or rubbing strip" along the area ... the term wear plate or rubbing strip should always be used .... never call it a doubler
Local areas of pitting (if restricted) can be welded up, nearly all of the investigation for this you can do yourself, it's not rocket science.
If you find little evidence of problems or just local areas and then repair them .... Then you can decide about a surveyor but if you decide that you are going the third party route you will at least have reasonable confidence in the state of your potato boat.
If you find you have a bottom only held together by 20 layers of tar then you may have to sell the Red Marauder to fund a major repair or try and find a sucker to sell to
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Post by Jim on Jan 1, 2022 9:59:50 GMT
If you find you have a bottom only held together by 20 layers of tar then you may have to sell the Red Marauder to fund a major repair or try and find a sucker to sell to
Just paint the innards white, cruise down to londonland and put up a sign. Job sorted.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jan 1, 2022 11:41:50 GMT
I had a good look all over and under the hull when the boat was in dry dock last April (as did Pete Gilbert). There's been no degradation since the 2013 survey. It was made from high-quality British steel in the first place then spent the first 25 years of its life on the non-tidal River Trent, I'm told fresh water is better for a boat than canal water which can be non ph neutral. I'm not inclined to pay £800-odd for a survey so I will firstly attempt to obtain comprehensive insurance without one, if not then I will just get third party insurance and continue to monitor the boat for water ingress.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2022 12:21:12 GMT
Basic boat liability company. I've insured all my boats with them since insurance became mandatory. They have a wreck removal thing but to be fair it is self declaration that the boat is in sound condition. I'm not sure why they think everyone is an armchair expert on the subject of hull soundness. It would be quite an interesting situation if wreck removal was required. I wonder how they would get out of it I hate insurance. It is the porn of the devil. There is a 15 million pound house on the hill near the ranch, with 477 acres of land. Owned until recently by... An insurance man. He died, as people do and the estate was put on market. Scams working on fear I do not like.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jan 1, 2022 19:55:55 GMT
Basic boat liability company. I've insured all my boats with them since insurance became mandatory. (snip for brevity) Scams working on fear I do not like. Yes, I'll probably insure with Basic Boat Insurance next year if I can't persuade Tokio Marine Holdings to re-insure the Potato Boat without a survey. Clockwork Banana and Red Marauder are both insured third party only, the Rover 75 has comprehensive cover but I have never, ever needed to claim on any insurance policy for a loss of my own in 45 years of having motor insurance. I would marginally prefer the boat to have comprehensive cover but I won't lose any sleep if it doesn't. It cannot sink on the mooring as it virtually sits on the canal bed, I do monitor it regularly for water ingress, I am extremely careful with fire and rarely leave the boat unattended when the stove is alight with anything more than embers. Of course, anything could happen at any time but generally I regard insurance as a form of gambling, and due to my understanding of the laws of probability and knowledge of the vast profits made by companies offering gambling and insurance, I tend to regard third party cover as sufficient in that it satisfies CRT's licensing requirements.
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Post by JohnV on Jan 1, 2022 20:17:25 GMT
Basic boat liability company. I've insured all my boats with them since insurance became mandatory. (snip for brevity) Scams working on fear I do not like. I regard insurance as a form of gambling, and due to my understanding of the laws of probability and knowledge of the vast profits made by companies offering gambling and insurance, I tend to regard third party cover as sufficient in that it satisfies CRT's licensing requirements. Sabina is my home and a big investment, there is no way I could start again now.
A lot of the time I am on waterways with sufficient depth to make a sinking a major and expensive recovery operation.
A friend in Essex lost his boat when crossing the Crouch near Burnham, it sank in the fairway, his insurance didn't cover the recovery of the wreck and he had to pay for recovery (he was lucky as he had a friend with a salvage tug so he got mates rates) but it was either that or the Crouch Authority would do it and sue him for the cost.
I understand where you are coming from but I have been on a boat that was thought to be sound .... and it damn near sank under us
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2022 20:22:39 GMT
And I was like "long live the shallow ditches" isn't it.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jan 1, 2022 20:30:36 GMT
I regard insurance as a form of gambling, and due to my understanding of the laws of probability and knowledge of the vast profits made by companies offering gambling and insurance, I tend to regard third party cover as sufficient in that it satisfies CRT's licensing requirements. Sabina is my home and a big investment, there is no way I could start again now.
A lot of the time I am on waterways with sufficient depth to make a sinking a major and expensive recovery operation.
A friend in Essex lost his boat when crossing the Crouch near Burnham, it sank in the fairway, his insurance didn't cover the recoverry of the wreck and he had to pay for recovery (he was lucky as he had a friend with a salvage tug so he got mates rates) but it was either that or the Crouch Authority would do it and sue him for the cost.
I understand where you are coming from but I have been on a boat that was thought to be sound .... and it damn near sank under us
The other thing though is that narrowboat surveys are highly "Mickey Mouse" anyway. They have so many get-out clauses that they are virtually worthless in real terms. Look at Foxy. Had a survey done when he bought the boat showing a solid hull, now just seven years later it's like a tea-bag. Who's to say that the broker, potential purchaser and surveyor, knowing that the vendor is 1,500 miles away and in a cleft stick due to travel restrictions and a tightly binding contract, haven't colluded to provide a survey designed purely to paint a falsely negative picture and rip the vendor off?
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