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Post by ianali on Jan 7, 2022 18:21:33 GMT
The point I am failing to make is ... they DID do damage unarguably ... however a jury found them not guilty having been persuaded that in the circumstances their actions amounted to having lawful excuse. I haven't said, and it is unimportant whether you or I agree or disagree. They have been processed and tried by a jury of their peers and found not guilty. Rog Fortunately it looks like its going to be allowed to be appealed and justice might yet happen according to the news Justice was done. Also I think you’ll find that the sentence cannot be overturned.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 18:23:01 GMT
Yea but I Disagree in a BIGGER FONT. So there. But does it count as you didn't do it in yellow .... ? He’s used up all the yellow, painting his spine 🤣
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Post by ianali on Jan 7, 2022 18:23:58 GMT
It’s always surprised me how people see things so differently to others. I just can’t understand how anyone would wish to have on display, a statue of such an evil man. Others though see it as simply an historic reminder of our past. It doesn’t offend me, but I can see why it might others. People eh.. But he wasn’t an evil man in the context of his time. Evil is a man made and transient concept depending on the current zeitgeist. Just about any statue you care to mention would be of someone who disapproved of homosexuality, transgender etc. Are you going to label them all as homophobes and transphobes and tear their statues down and cancel them in JK Rowling fashion? History suggest that he was evil.. no matter of when he committed atrocities.
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Post by ianali on Jan 7, 2022 18:26:11 GMT
Occasionally Nick, you don’t half come across as a pompous ass. No offence intended 👍 Here are some thickies for you - the country is full of 'em! Erm.. young and being paid to shag gorgeous girls(yes and boys Nick) Maybe not that thick?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jan 7, 2022 18:31:17 GMT
But he wasn’t an evil man in the context of his time. Evil is a man made and transient concept depending on the current zeitgeist. Just about any statue you care to mention would be of someone who disapproved of homosexuality, transgender etc. Are you going to label them all as homophobes and transphobes and tear their statues down and cancel them in JK Rowling fashion? History suggest that he was evil.. no matter of when he committed atrocities. At the time Colston was engaged in what was considered to be a legitimate and respectable trade, against which there was virtually no objection. So it would be a bit like Colonel Sanders becoming a hate figure if veganism became mainstream in 100 years' time because it is not considered evil to eat fried chicken in 2022.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 18:34:12 GMT
Gosh what an interesting thread... Its given me lots to think about I do not agree with hiding/destroying our past. I do think perhaps museums could use these statues that cause a lot of offence in displays then its up to Jo Public if they go or not Well thinking about it its also up to the individual if they go and walk past these statues and then take offence I don't think taking the law into your own hands and destroying works of art..which is what a statue is, should be acceptable. I like to read the inscriptions and very often I'll then do more research... I love history. I like to see the good and the bad... should we really destroy these statues... I do not think so. Absolutely agree ... I love public art works whatever their pedigree, whether I like them or not, I love to see them ... love to read their history. And this is indeed a fascinating thread with diverse opinions ... much food for reflection Rog
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Post by thebfg on Jan 7, 2022 18:34:26 GMT
Fortunately it looks like its going to be allowed to be appealed and justice might yet happen according to the news Justice was done. Also I think you’ll find that the sentence cannot be overturned. The acquittal cannot be overturned and the defendants cannot be retried without fresh evidence. There is probably going to be a move to send it to the court of appeal but only so senior judges and clarify the law for future cases.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 18:35:30 GMT
Or vaccinated people becoming pariahs in 2031 once it has been established that they were willingly propping up a bent system.
Being told to do something by a perceived authoritarian figure or group is no excuse.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jan 7, 2022 18:35:49 GMT
Gosh what an interesting thread... Its given me lots to think about I do not agree with hiding/destroying our past. I do think perhaps museums could use these statues that cause a lot of offence in displays then its up to Jo Public if they go or not Well thinking about it its also up to the individual if they go and walk past these statues and then take offence I don't think taking the law into your own hands and destroying works of art..which is what a statue is, should be acceptable. I like to read the inscriptions and very often I'll then do more research... I love history. I like to see the good and the bad... should we really destroy these statues... I do not think so. Absolutely agree ... I love public art works whatever their pedigree, whether I like them or not, I love to see them ... love to read their history. And this is indeed a fascinating thread with diverse opinions ... much food for reflection Rog Careful you don't get a splinter up your arse from sitting on that fence.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 7, 2022 18:35:55 GMT
But he wasn’t an evil man in the context of his time. Evil is a man made and transient concept depending on the current zeitgeist. Just about any statue you care to mention would be of someone who disapproved of homosexuality, transgender etc. Are you going to label them all as homophobes and transphobes and tear their statues down and cancel them in JK Rowling fashion? History suggest that he was evil.. no matter of when he committed atrocities. history suggests he was evil by today’s standards. But he was no considered evil at the time. One can’t really be blamed for doing something which at the time was considered quite normal, then 100 years later it’s decided by a new generation that it’s evil. In other words, how can you know that something you are doing will be judged to be evil in 100 years time? If you can’t know that, how can you avoid doing it? Dont forget that slavery has been around forever, will be around for ever most probably, and the Africans who supplied the slaves were just as culpable as the Brits who bought and used them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 18:36:14 GMT
History suggest that he was evil.. no matter of when he committed atrocities. At the time Colston was engaged in what was considered to be a legitimate and respectable trade, against which there was virtually no objection. So it would be a bit like Colonel Sanders becoming a hate figure if veganism became mainstream in 100 years' time because it is not considered evil to eat fried chicken in 2022. It is evil to eat fried chicken - leave it all to those who adore and worship these things.
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Post by metanoia on Jan 7, 2022 18:37:52 GMT
All this talk of food ...
... off to tuck into my gooseberry crumble.... (homemade, naturally! - well I didn't make the gooseberries).
eta - just realised how disrespectful that might sound. Certainly not intentional.
Further eta - that goosegog crumble is just ........... mmmmmmm!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 18:42:26 GMT
History suggest that he was evil.. no matter of when he committed atrocities. history suggests he was evil by today’s standards. But he was no considered evil at the time. One can’t really be blamed for doing something which at the time was considered quite normal, then 100 years later it’s decided by a new generation that it’s evil. In other words, how can you know that something you are doing will be judged to be evil in 100 years time? If you can’t know that, how can you avoid doing it? Dont forget that slavery has been around forever, will be around for ever most probably, and the Africans who supplied the slaves were just as culpable as the Brits who bought and used them. Slavery appears to be a basic wrong thing to do but it's possible that some of the slaves actually had a good time. They were kept alive, probably given somewhere to live and sustenance in order for them to be productive in a working environment. It is possible that the alternatives were not in fact much better. Who knows. They could have just died an awfully nasty death in a horrible situation if they had not been enslaved. It's not impossible that being a slave gave a considerable number of people a better life than they would have endured otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 18:49:31 GMT
Absolutely agree ... I love public art works whatever their pedigree, whether I like them or not, I love to see them ... love to read their history. And this is indeed a fascinating thread with diverse opinions ... much food for reflection Rog Careful you don't get a splinter up your arse from sitting on that fence. Over what am I sitting on the fence? I have made clear that ... I support the arrest and due process of those responsible for the damage ... I support jury trial and accept the verdict of those juries even when I disagree with them ... I support those in a local area in making decisions on their public art works and am pleased the national debate has begun ... I like to hear others views because I already know what mine are, but I am happy to reflect on the issue having heard what others have to say. Rog
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Post by ianali on Jan 7, 2022 18:52:05 GMT
History suggest that he was evil.. no matter of when he committed atrocities. At the time Colston was engaged in what was considered to be a legitimate and respectable trade, against which there was virtually no objection. So it would be a bit like Colonel Sanders becoming a hate figure if veganism became mainstream in 100 years' time because it is not considered evil to eat fried chicken in 2022. I reckon a few black slaves objected.
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