|
Post by dogless on Aug 31, 2023 9:48:13 GMT
Whilst this idea has been promoted on social media and in the press, and now appears likely to be enshrined in law, I am amazed no one has pointed out how difficult it would be to achieve in practice.
To physically take a person from a prison cell into the dock of a courtroom, and hold them there without disturbance to the court process would be hugely labour intensive, expensive, and dangerous for those charged with the task, (the ones most poorly paid in the court) whilst achieving nothing in reality.
And of course the people pushing for this to happen are not the ones who'll have to physically make it happen.
The intention sounds honourable and worthy, but the reality would be dangerous, expensive and pointless it seems to me.
What do you think ?
Rog
|
|
|
Post by โ on Aug 31, 2023 9:49:31 GMT
Perhaps medication would be used.
My sister is forcibly medicated when she gets sectioned.
No reason not to pump someone full of tranqs in the case of court appearances.
|
|
|
Post by โ on Aug 31, 2023 9:51:44 GMT
Once drugged up they would be pretty easy to handle.
Whether it would be worthwhile I don't know but some people seem to be pushing for it and the government is desperate to find some shitty populist ideas to help with the election.
|
|
|
Post by dogless on Aug 31, 2023 9:54:01 GMT
Perhaps your second point is right.
Rog
|
|
|
Post by kris on Aug 31, 2023 10:26:50 GMT
We can probably expect some headline grabbing tax cuts for the same reason.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Aug 31, 2023 10:38:00 GMT
Whilst this idea has been promoted on social media and in the press, and now appears likely to be enshrined in law, I am amazed no one has pointed out how difficult it would be to achieve in practice. To physically take a person from a prison cell into the dock of a courtroom, and hold them there without disturbance to the court process would be hugely labour intensive, expensive, and dangerous for those charged with the task, (the ones most poorly paid in the court) whilst achieving nothing in reality. And of course the people pushing for this to happen are not the ones who'll have to physically make it happen. The intention sounds honourable and worthy, but the reality would be dangerous, expensive and pointless it seems to me. What do you think ? Rog Once in prison people can and often are forced to do stuff using physical restraint and force if necessary. A criminal who has been convicted f a serious offence but not yet sentenced is surely in very similar position? There are plenty of people out there who, if truth be told, would enjoy exerting โreasonable forceโ on a convicted criminal if they refuse to obey reasonable instructions. I canโt see this happening very often in reality, only in serious cases where the perpetrator showed zero remorse. In some ways it would act as a deterrent for those contemplating refusing to confront their sentencing. It might cause a bit of disruption if the perpetrator made a lot of noise about it, but IMO that is a cost worth bearing and of course the criminal will already have been in court. I donโt think you or I can put ourselves in the position of the families/relatives/victims, and whilst our legal system should be about justice, not revenge, I canโt help sympathising with the view that failure to attend is another โslap in the faceโ for them. In the balance between the โhuman rightsโ of the criminal Vs those of the victims, I tend to side with the latter. As to simply adding a couple of years to the sentence, that seems pointless for those who are going to receive a whole life tariff.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Aug 31, 2023 10:39:42 GMT
Perhaps medication would be used. My sister is forcibly medicated when she gets sectioned. No reason not to pump someone full of tranqs in the case of court appearances. However that would rather defeat the object.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Aug 31, 2023 10:43:10 GMT
In the Letby case, I don't think it would have been particularly labour intensive, expensive or dangerous to get a couple of burly prison warders to drag her up a set of stairs and into the dock. When we used to hang people, the condemned would sometimes have to be "assisted" onto the drop.
|
|
|
Post by โ on Aug 31, 2023 10:43:47 GMT
Perhaps medication would be used. My sister is forcibly medicated when she gets sectioned. No reason not to pump someone full of tranqs in the case of court appearances. However that would rather defeat the object. Why? They aren't put to sleep it just helps prevent physical problems. The person is still there. If the victims' families just want to see the perpetrator then doesn't this fulfil the requirement? What do people want to do here? Have a chat over a cup of tea and explain what a scumbag they are ? If you mean the person should be 'of sound mind' I don't really see how someone in that position could ever be of sound mind. They're fucked whether medicated or not.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Aug 31, 2023 10:45:48 GMT
However that would rather defeat the object. Why? They aren't put to sleep it just helps prevent physical problems. The person is still there. If the victims' families just want to see the perpetrator then doesn't this fulfil the requirement? What do people want to do here? Have a chat over a cup of tea and explain what a scumbag they are ? One of the reasons cited is that the perp should hear the victim impact statements.
|
|
|
Post by dogless on Aug 31, 2023 10:47:47 GMT
Can you imagine the outrage and demand for swift punishment if a person was injured or worse died in the process of restrain for sentencing purpose ... from the very people promoting this tactic.
Rog
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Aug 31, 2023 10:48:07 GMT
However that would rather defeat the object. Why? They aren't put to sleep it just helps prevent physical problems. The person is still there. If the victims' families just want to see the perpetrator then doesn't this fulfil the requirement? What do people want to do here? Have a chat over a cup of tea and explain what a scumbag they are ? If you mean the person should be 'of sound mind' I don't really see how someone in that position could ever be of sound mind. They're fucked whether medicated or not. Because the victims presumably want to see the reaction of the criminal when the sentence is given out. If they are drugged up in a happy dozy place oblivious to their surroundings, they might as well not be there. Some people would refuse just so they could receive the drugs!
|
|
|
Post by โ on Aug 31, 2023 10:48:29 GMT
If the topic is about victims families getting satisfaction from seeing someonr being put away for life I would suggest that this is not a very clever thing for people to engage in.
I mean in terms of adding to the trauma and psychological distress. I don't think it would be particularly helpful although at the time it may appear so.
All you are doing in reality is adding layers of stress to the trauma which will never result in positive outcomes.
The fact is that in our justice system retribution can not be achieved. There is no 'eye for an eye' outside of basic criminal behaviour.
There should be but there isn't.
Just seeing the person 'in the dock' will not fulfil this basic need.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Aug 31, 2023 10:52:00 GMT
Can you imagine the outrage and demand for swift punishment if a person was injured or worse died in the process of restrain for sentencing purpose ... from the very people promoting this tactic. Rog But as I said, physical restraint happens every day, police, prison wardens etc. I canโt see how this is any different. There have occasionally been unfortunate outcomes but as a % it is tiny, and in those cases there is normally clear evidence of โover exuberanceโ by the restrainers. And all the recent cases such as Letby and the child-shooter, have been white. So the wokeys arenโt that bothered.
|
|
|
Post by โ on Aug 31, 2023 10:53:16 GMT
The perp is fucked anyway. They are not there. Victim impact statements won't mean anything and in my opinion are likely to damage the victim far more than the perp.
Humans have a basic understanding of what is going on and if you read a statement out to someone and it does nothing you could be in serious shit going forwards yourself. I wouldn't fancy that.
Trauma magnifier.
|
|