|
|
Post by kris on Feb 8, 2024 13:19:38 GMT
Looking at the way the world is now and the way it’s going. I’m increasingly beginning to believe that a universal basic income for everybody on the planet is the only way forward for civilisation.
The other option being offered at the min seems to be war and an ever increasing amount of conflict. There has to be an alternative, war is not an inevitability.
|
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Feb 8, 2024 13:22:43 GMT
I'll suggest an alternative. Less globalism and interdependence.
|
|
|
|
Post by kris on Feb 8, 2024 13:23:50 GMT
How would that stop conflict?
|
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Feb 8, 2024 13:26:05 GMT
Conflicts would reach their natural conclusions within the regions affected. The interference of so called powerful nations only succeeds in perpetuating and growing the conflicts, and spreading the conflicts to areas previously not affected.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Feb 8, 2024 15:30:47 GMT
How would that stop conflict? every man is an island, no communal behaviour, we all stay within our own rooms, responsible for no one but ourselves, live in a cave on a hill with no dependants, job sorted, if you see your neighbour beating his wife or maltreating his children, leave them to it. anarchy rules ok! |
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Feb 8, 2024 15:45:24 GMT
How would that stop conflict? every man is an island, no communal behaviour, we all stay within our own rooms, responsible for no one but ourselves, live in a cave on a hill with no dependants, job sorted, if you see your neighbour beating his wife or maltreating his children, leave them to it. anarchy rules ok! Otherwise, we could pretend that everyone would vote to share their wealth with the rest of the world. We could pretend that growth in the activity of the human species isn't damaging, that it's sustainable, can go on for ever. As long as we describe it as green, that is. As long as we all share everything with each other, throughout the world, everything will be just fine. |
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Feb 8, 2024 16:02:36 GMT
Looking at the way the world is now and the way it’s going. I’m increasingly beginning to believe that a universal basic income for everybody on the planet is the only way forward for civilisation. The other option being offered at the min seems to be war and an ever increasing amount of conflict. There has to be an alternative, war is not an inevitability. It's a nice idea but as far as I can see, totally impractical. You would need to explain how it would work if you wanted to garner support. As has been hinted, the primary issue facing the planet is over population. Wars help, as does starvation and sickness. It is the way of nature and exactly the same for all other species. How many ducklings do you see in spring bobbing about on the cut? What is the lifespan of a duck?. Are the numbers of ducks increasing? No, because lots of ducklings die, lots of adults get eaten or starve or get sick. That is life. And death. Otherwise there is a crisis of population and the planet cannot support the population so that everyone starves/ecologies collapse/climate change etc etc. God invented religion so that humans would have something to fight over. He was quite clever with that idea as it has been very sucessful.
If everyone was suddenly comfortably off, people in poor countries, who have a culture of having lots of children in the hope that a few survive to look after them/work/earn money for the family, or for religious reasons (every sperm is sacred) would suddenly have enormous families. And then you would have to increase the universal income because the kids were hungry. And where is all this wealth going to come from. It does sound a bit like an "eat the rich" kind of socialist idea that could never work, because there aren't enough rich to go around. It would need a lot of thinking through, which is one reason why it hasn't happened.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Feb 8, 2024 16:55:04 GMT
Looking at the way the world is now and the way it’s going. I’m increasingly beginning to believe that a universal basic income for everybody on the planet is the only way forward for civilisation. The other option being offered at the min seems to be war and an ever increasing amount of conflict. There has to be an alternative, war is not an inevitability. It's a nice idea but as far as I can see, totally impractical. You would need to explain how it would work if you wanted to garner support. As has been hinted, the primary issue facing the planet is over population. Wars help, as does starvation and sickness. It is the way of nature and exactly the same for all other species. How many ducklings do you see in spring bobbing about on the cut? What is the lifespan of a duck?. Are the numbers of ducks increasing? No, because lots of ducklings die, lots of adults get eaten or starve or get sick. That is life. And death. Otherwise there is a crisis of population and the planet cannot support the population so that everyone starves/ecologies collapse/climate change etc etc. God invented religion so that humans would have something to fight over. He was quite clever with that idea as it has been very sucessful.
If everyone was suddenly comfortably off, people in poor countries, who have a culture of having lots of children in the hope that a few survive to look after them/work/earn money for the family, or for religious reasons (every sperm is sacred) would suddenly have enormous families. And then you would have to increase the universal income because the kids were hungry. And where is all this wealth going to come from. It does sound a bit like an "eat the rich" kind of socialist idea that could never work, because there aren't enough rich to go around. It would need a lot of thinking through, which is one reason why it hasn't happened.
A major flaw in your reasoning is that wealth and education lead to bigger families. They don't. That's why we don't have enough young people earning to pay for the state pensions. Perhaps we should invite some furriners in to help. |
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Feb 8, 2024 17:15:29 GMT
If everyone on earth received a universal income, what might motivate people to work to produce the food and other basics humans need for survival?
|
|
|
|
Post by brummieboy on Feb 8, 2024 17:16:48 GMT
Universal payment a panacea for all? Isn't that what the communist model is based on? That works well doesn't it?
Humans being what they are, like any species, will not do more work or more complex work than the next man who doesn't give a shit but gets the same pay. This is borne out at present by the benefit sitters or permanently sick who all get looked after for nothing.
The all men are equal crap produces an underclass of criminality and an overclass of exploiters. It didn't do a lot to eliminate war and violence in the USSR.
|
|
|
|
Post by on Feb 8, 2024 17:19:13 GMT
If everyone on earth received a universal income, what might motivate people to work to produce the food and other basics humans need for survival? Instinct? People would not be content to have 'just enough' they would want more. This is obvious when you consider that rich people go to work. |
|
|
|
Post by fi on Feb 8, 2024 17:21:29 GMT
Looking at the way the world is now and the way it’s going. I’m increasingly beginning to believe that a universal basic income for everybody on the planet is the only way forward for civilisation. The other option being offered at the min seems to be war and an ever increasing amount of conflict. There has to be an alternative, war is not an inevitability. It's a nice idea but as far as I can see, totally impractical. You would need to explain how it would work if you wanted to garner support. As has been hinted, the primary issue facing the planet is over population. Wars help, as does starvation and sickness. It is the way of nature and exactly the same for all other species. How many ducklings do you see in spring bobbing about on the cut? What is the lifespan of a duck?. Are the numbers of ducks increasing? No, because lots of ducklings die, lots of adults get eaten or starve or get sick. That is life. And death. Otherwise there is a crisis of population and the planet cannot support the population so that everyone starves/ecologies collapse/climate change etc etc. God invented religion so that humans would have something to fight over. He was quite clever with that idea as it has been very sucessful.
If everyone was suddenly comfortably off, people in poor countries, who have a culture of having lots of children in the hope that a few survive to look after them/work/earn money for the family, or for religious reasons (every sperm is sacred) would suddenly have enormous families. And then you would have to increase the universal income because the kids were hungry. And where is all this wealth going to come from. It does sound a bit like an "eat the rich" kind of socialist idea that could never work, because there aren't enough rich to go around. It would need a lot of thinking through, which is one reason why it hasn't happened.
I've never had you down as a God botherer! |
|
|
|
Post by on Feb 8, 2024 17:22:49 GMT
Obviously there is the potential for it to become glaringly obvious that money is just an exchange token and technically meaningless if there is nothing to buy but survival instinct and greed drivers would sort that out. Instinct is there whatever happens. There is no need to encourage it.
A basic income would probably be prevented from happening for obvious reasons.
|
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Feb 8, 2024 17:26:17 GMT
If everyone on earth received a universal income, what might motivate people to work to produce the food and other basics humans need for survival? Instinct? People would not be content to have 'just enough' they would want more. This is obvious when you consider that rich people go to work. Fair point. However: The people in question would not be driven to work for low wages, in order to survive. The low wages which enable those in the developed world to live their bountiful lives, and pay the taxes needed to enable the worldwide universal basic income system. I guess the developed world would then, true to form, borrow to perpetuate (save) the worldwide universal income system. Lump the debt onto the kids of the relatively rich on the basis of projected future economic growth which the planet couldn't sustain. |
|
|
|
Post by fi on Feb 8, 2024 17:26:44 GMT
If everyone on earth received a universal income, what might motivate people to work to produce the food and other basics humans need for survival? Instinct? People would not be content to have 'just enough' they would want more. This is obvious when you consider that rich people go to work. That is the precis of how it would work, give people enough to live a very basic life and they would aim for more or be happy with what they have. How it would work in practise would be one of the worlds greatest social experiments. I think it would work, but that is based on me. |
|
