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Post by tonyqj on Jun 25, 2017 13:24:35 GMT
The P4 is a 1950s unit I believe. so probably readily fettled by normal mortals then. Instead of the the current "sealed unit, chuck it and buy the special gold plated one" attitude with modern cars. Absolutely 😀
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Post by tonyb on Jun 25, 2017 13:47:55 GMT
We have been taking the post saying it may be an inertia starter but if its an old pre-engage like those on BMC 2.2s of that era they have a multi-plate clutch on the pinion that could be slipping - that is the motor turning but the pinion is not. If it is then the clutch probably needs shimming - good luck - send it to Sir N
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Post by tonyb on Jun 25, 2017 16:26:50 GMT
I have been googling images for the 4-99 starter and it seems it is probably an ordinary pre-engage type but the one illustrated had a sprag clutch pinion drive rather than the multiplate clutch I mentioned above. I suspect this is a modern version. If a sprag clutch "slipped" I bet it would really squeal.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 16:32:27 GMT
Thats interesting. Its not a 4.99 but may have a similar starter. While the squeal is happening the starter is not turning at all. Its like a dodgy connection but it only happens now and then. Its been fine today and I've started it 4 times as have been going up the Thames and some lock keepers ask to switch engine off.
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Post by tonyb on Jun 25, 2017 17:18:34 GMT
Sorry about that - misremembered the first post. I have found a google image of a P4 and it looks like an axial starter to me (I get axial and co-axials mixed up) The whole armature slides forward on this type and the contacts need some setting up. As I joked earlier Sir N's from the other place is your man. Where are you because I know where you could get it repaired in Reading.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 21:50:50 GMT
I'm in Henley now as it happens but the starter has been behaving itself today. As I said its an intermittent problem. Would be handy to know a place to take it as Reading is close to Henley, just in case it causes more problems
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 21:52:33 GMT
And thanks for suggesting snibble I did get the impression he was very knowledgeable in this area when I was reading canalworld.
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Post by tonyb on Jun 26, 2017 6:08:32 GMT
I'm in Henley now as it happens but the starter has been behaving itself today. As I said its an intermittent problem. Would be handy to know a place to take it as Reading is close to Henley, just in case it causes more problems The place is Thames valley Electro Diesels and it is very close to the South Reading Morrisons store. A no. 6 bus from Station Road (north of the station) will get you there. Undfortunatle I am on the boat otherwise I would have picked you up in the car. Morrisons i son a junction between Basingstoke Road the bus uses and Rose Kiln Lane. TVED is across Rose Kiln Lane opposite Morrisons car park in the far corner of the estate that Screwfix is on. Buses about every 10 minutes. There is also another place In Burghfield (Burgfield Starters & Alternators) but I have never seen them with an axial starter but fine for more common ones and alternator repairs. Bus from Brughfield bridge by The Cunning Man Pub going south or from Reading but google their location, the driver is unlikely to know and its tucked behind other businesses. Busses probably an hourly or half hourly service. Edited to add "from" Reading in last paragraph for clarity of direction.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 6:59:26 GMT
Thanks for that Tony.
Its ok at the moment but I sense there may be a future problem so its handy to know where to go to have it looked at if necessary.
Ta.
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Post by tonyqj on Jun 26, 2017 7:27:45 GMT
Thanks for that Tony. Its ok at the moment but I sense there may be a future problem so its handy to know where to go to have it looked at if necessary. Ta. Maybe better to get it refurbed at your convenience sooner rather than later when it leaves you stuck?
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Post by peterboat on Jun 26, 2017 7:58:23 GMT
I am with Tony on this problems never fix themselves they just get worse, and can cause components to be damaged beyond repair!! fix now cruise happy later
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Post by bargemast on Jun 26, 2017 8:29:45 GMT
Thanks for that Tony. Its ok at the moment but I sense there may be a future problem so its handy to know where to go to have it looked at if necessary. Ta. Maybe better to get it refurbed at your convenience sooner rather than later when it leaves you stuck? That is the best thing to do, forget about the "Maybe", and do it now, while the boat is safely moored up for a day or two. You seem to be a bit of a worrier, and all the extra stress, like : "Will the engine start after having had to stop the engine in a lock ?" It's not worth it, it has to be done sooner or later, but the only reasonnable thing to do is "sooner", like right now. Tonyb gave you all the details for the busses to get there without too many problems, so don't waste you time worrying, get it done now. I'm sure that once it's done, you'll be a happier man, and you won't regret it. Peter.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 28, 2017 11:33:53 GMT
I'd take it apart a bit myself, it could be something simple, save the mucking about and it's always nice to fix things yourself. For example, if there's a bush in the flywheel housing supporting one end of the spindle that might be worn, typically these are porous to hold some oil but after installation never see more oil. Same for bush in the other end, typically hiding under a removable cover. I know nothing about your particular starter of course so that's possibly no help at all, but you'd have to remove the starter anyway whichever direction you head afterwards.
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Post by tonyb on Jun 28, 2017 14:11:26 GMT
If I am right about it being an axial starter then there is no bush in the flywheel housing and no bush in the "nose" of the drive end bracket like you have on older pre-engage starters.
If the end of the starter furthest away from the flywheel is covered with a large tin housing, radiused at the bottom to match the starter body, sides tapering slightly towards the top that is narrower than the base and higher that the motor body with terminals at the top pointing towards the flywheel then its the starter I am thinking of.
You can take the metal cover off (two nuts/screws I think) and see the somewhat complex contact arrangement but as I said above the contact operation needs careful setting up/adjustment.
The image I found made it look like a smaller version of the starters probably used on Gardiners and other similar "trad" engines.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 14:33:38 GMT
It has just occurred to me that it might be a 24v starter. Its always been on 12v since I have had it but it does turn the engine very slowly. Its a big unit. I ought to get in there and have a look if there is a plate but its been painted.
The engine is apparently ex MOD (I think this is true).
I've seen a P3 and it had a different starter mounted centrally.
When I'm on the boat tomorrow I'll try to get some photos of it.
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