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Post by NigelMoore on Aug 29, 2017 19:58:38 GMT
Have today confirmed that the 1961 byelaws were made law in 1961 by way of a Statutory Instrument. Made copies of them, but it will be a few days before I get a chance to read through properly. Well done! Might be an idea to send the Bridgewater Canal Company a copy, as they seem to have lost theirs .... What seems utterly bizarre, is that licence holders have to agree with these, and how can they do so if no copies are available?!
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Post by thebfg on Aug 29, 2017 21:04:52 GMT
please don't assume I've gone mental but one can only hope crt have gone to have a look at them.
I know it's right out there, but hey there is always hope.
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Post by gigoguy on Aug 29, 2017 21:07:46 GMT
Well done! Might be an idea to send the Bridgewater Canal Company a copy, as they seem to have lost theirs .... What seems utterly bizarre, is that licence holders have to agree with these, and how can they do so if no copies are available?! I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is Peel. That's them all over. They love to cite legislation but they never quote it. I've asked them 12 times for them to show me any legal authority they have to charge for passage for pleasure boats. They know that the 2012 by laws don't give it. And they know the 1960 MSC act doesn't give them the right to impound and sell or scrap boats. So they're hoping the 61 by laws do both Have you any first impressions?
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Post by erivers on Aug 29, 2017 21:57:22 GMT
Have today confirmed that the 1961 byelaws were made law in 1961 by way of a Statutory Instrument. Made copies of them, but it will be a few days before I get a chance to read through properly. I am really intrigued to find out what our super sleuth Nigel has turned up in the dusty archives. The only 1961 Statutory Instrument concerning the Bridgewater Canal or Manchester Ship Canal Co. that I have managed to find is the Bridgewater Canal (Rules) Revocation Order 1961 and all that does is revoke old rules for lighting of vessels made in 1889. It is just possible that it may have been me that delayed his search today as I had two weeks ago ordered a search for the 1961 Byelaws at the National Archives (with no response to date). I have apologised to Nigel if the difficulty he experienced today was my fault, but I rather suspect that there are others now keeping their eyes PEELed for this information.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 30, 2017 6:35:32 GMT
Have today confirmed that the 1961 byelaws were made law in 1961 by way of a Statutory Instrument. Made copies of them, but it will be a few days before I get a chance to read through properly. Ouch !!!
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Post by NigelMoore on Aug 30, 2017 15:07:16 GMT
BRIDGEWATER CANALS BYE LAWS
Made by the Manchester Ship Canal Company under and in pursuance of the powers contained in the Manchester Ship Canal Acts 1885--1956 and all other powers thereunto enabling them. These Bye-laws shall apply to the Bridgewater Canals as herein after defined and to the undertaking of the Company connected herewith or appurtenant thereto
PART I.
(1) These Bye-laws shall come into operation on the date on which the Bridgewater Canals Rules, 1870 are revoked by Order in Council (2) In these Bye-laws the following words and expressions have the following meanings (except where the subject or context otherwise requires). "The Company" means The Manchester Ship Canal Company. "Canal" means (i) The Bridgewater Canal from Knott Mill in the city of Manchester to Runcorn in the County of Chester together with the branch from Waters Meeting Stretford in the County of Lancaster to its junction with the Leeds and Liverpool Canal at Leigh in the County of Lancaster (ii) The Runcorn and Weston Canal from its junction with the Weaver Navigation, at Green's Lock (otherwise known as Miller’s Lock) to Runcorn in the County of Chester (iii) All cuts waterways channels towing paths bridges docks including Runcorn Docks quays basins ponds lay-byes work and Premises connected with the Bridgewater Canal and the Runcorn and Weston Canal and belonging to or under the control of the company. “Vessel" includes any ship, boat, barge, lighter or raft and any other description of craft whether used in navigation or not. “Master" means the person having command or charge of the vessel for the time being. “Navigating” includes 'mooring and unmooring. (3) Any person who offends against any of these bye-laws shall be liable for every offence to a penalty not exceeding £5 and to a daily penalty not exceeding 40 shillings for every day such offence shall continue after conviction. (4) it shall be the duty of the master of any vessel on the Canal to comply with Parts II, III, IV, and V of these Bye-laws.
PART II VESSELS USED ON THE CANAL
(5) No vessel which is not in every respect watertight and fit for navigation shall be brought onto used or left on the Canal. (6) Every vessel on the Canal shall have her name clearly exhibited on each side so as to be distinctly legible at all times. (7) Every vessel on the Canal shall have available at all times adequate equipment for fighting fire. (8) Every mechanically propelled vessel shall be equipped with a horn or other suitable warning device in good working condition.
PART III. NAVIGATION
(9) Every vessel shall at all times be navigated with care and caution and in such a manner as will not involve risk of collision or endanger other vessels or their moorings or cause damage thereto or to the banks of the Canal or to any part of the Company’s property. Every vessel when approaching a lock or other vessel or when approaching any place where dredging or works of repair, maintenance or construction are in progress shall reduce speed and if necessary stop altogether. (10) No vessel shall navigate at a speed in excess of 4 mph and every vessel shall comply with all dead slow notices displayed along the Canal. (11) Every vessel navigating the Canal shall have available for immediate use an adequate supply of fenders made of suitable material and in good condition and such fenders shall be used whenever there is risk of the vessel striking any other vessel or any wall, lockgate, bridge or other thing. (12) Every vessel navigating the Canal between sunset and sunrise shall carry a white light clearly visible fore and aft. (14) Every mechanically propelled vessel when approaching any lock or bridge or when rounding a turn in the Canal or when audible notice of approach is necessary shall give adequate warning by sounding her horn or other suitable warning device. (15) Every vessel when meeting or being overtaken by another vessel shall keep to her own starboard side provided that every vessel which overtakes another vessel shall pass on the port side of the vessel being overtaken but a mechanically propelled vessel which meets or overtakes a horse-drawn vessel shall so navigate as to enable the horse-drawn vessel to pass between the towpath and the mechanically propi1ed vessel. (16) Where two vessels meet each other on any part of the Canal where they cannot pass in safety the vessel which is nearer to a place where they can pass in safety shall navigate to that place and allow the other vessel to pass provided always that (i) an unladen vessel shall give way to a laden vessel (ii) a vessel which is not towing another vessel shall give way to a vessel which is towing another vessel. (17) (i) Vessels navigating to or from any branch or arm of the Canal shall give way to vessels passing the entrance to such branch or arm. (ii) Vessels navigating from any branch or arm of the Canal shall give way to vessels entering such branch or arm. (iii) On the main Canal (being the Canal between Manchester and Runcorn) vessels entering any branch or arm of the Canal from the direction of Runcorn shall give way to vessels entering such branch or arm from the direction of Manchester. (iv) On the Leigh branch of the Canal (being the Canal from Waters Meeting, Stretford, to Leigh) vessels entering any branch or arm from the direction of Leigh shall give way to vessels entering such branch or arm from the direction of Waters Meeting.
PART IV. LOCKS AND BRIDGES
(18) Every vessel navigating through or near any lock at which a with directions. lock-keeper or other employee of the Company is on duty or through or near Barton Aqueduct shall comply with the directions given by the lock-keeper, bridge-tender or other person in charge thereof (19) (i) Every vessel when approaching or entering a lock shall proceed dead slow through the water and no vessel shall enter or leave a lock until the gates are fully open. (ii) No vessel shall turn her propeller whilst in a lock. (iii) No vessel shall be used to assist in the opening of the gates of a lock. (iv) A vessel approaching or entering a lock shall keep clear of any vessel which is leaving the lock. (v) No vessel shall enter upon Barton Aqueduct when another vessel approaching from the opposite direction is entering or is already upon the Aqueduct and no vessel shall approach so close to the Aqueduct as to hinder or endanger other craft leaving the Aqueduct (20) No person shall (i) open any lock gate or sluice at one end of a lock unless the gates and sluices at the other end of the lock are closed (ii) open or close or attempt to open or close the gate of any lock except by the means provided for that purpose or before the water is level on both sides of the gate (iii) draw or operate any sluices until the lock gates are closed (iv) operate or leave open any sluices or gate so as to waste water (v) operate any sluice otherwise than by means of the handle or other device normally used for that purpose (vi) fill or empty any lock of water for the admission of any vessel to the lock when there is another vessel approaching the lock from the opposite direction, and within 200 yards thereof and the level of the water in the lock is suitable for such approaching vessel to enter the lock (vii) cause or allow any vessel to remain in a lock longer than necessary for the convenient passage thereof. (21) Every vessel having passed a movable bridge shall close it to Canal traffic unless there is another vessel within 200 yards of the bridge and intending to pass it.
PART V. MOORING OF VESSELS
(22) Every vessel moored in the Canal (other than a dredger or other vessel engaged in works of maintenance or construction on the Canal) shall be well and securely moored as close as may be to the side of the Canal with good and sufficient ropes fore and aft and in such a manner and in such a position as not to obstruct other vessels. (23) (i) No mooring rope, chain or other tackle shall be made fast to any fence hedge, sluice, lock gate, bridge or canal work not provided for the purpose of mooring (ii. No vessel shall be moored under or within 25 yards of any bridge without the consent of the Company. (24) No vessel, shall be placed or lie in or near any dock or basin at or near any stop place cranes or wharf otherwise than in accordance with the instructions given by the Company's officers. (25) No vessel shall approach or moor alongside or near any warehouse or shed unless all open lights are first extinguished and unless an efficient spark arrester is fitted to the chimney of any stove containing a live fire. (26) When a vessel is moored her propeller shall not be set in motion without the permission of the Company.
PART VI GENERAL
(27) No person shall use or permit the use of any vessel on the Canal as a club, shop, store, workshop, dwelling or houseboat without the written consent of the Company. (28) No person shall obstruct, interfere with or hinder the navigation of any vessel on the Canal (29) No person shall cause or permit any vessel to navigate the Canal unless there is on board at least one person capable of managing and steering the vessel and conversant with the rules of navigating the Canal (30) No person shall turn any vessel adrift upon the Canal or shall unless authorised by the Master of the vessel or by the Company cast off or interfere with any mooring rope or fastening of any vessel (31) No person shall wilfully or negligently suffer any vessel to run aground or sink in the Canal (32) The owner or person in charge of any vessel which runs aground or sinks in the Canal shall forthwith inform the Company and take all steps necessary to warn other vessels of such running aground or sinking. (33) The owner or person in charge of any vessel which runs aground or sinks or obstructs the navigation of vessels in the Canal shall on request forthwith and according to the directions of the Company raise or remove the vessel at his own cost. (34) (i) Where a Notice is exhibited drawing attention to the provisions of this Bye-law, no person shall trespass on any part of the Company's property provided that this part of this Bye-law shall not apply to the towpath along the Bridgwater Canal s defIned by Bye-law 2 (i). (ii) No person shall carelessly, or negligently deface injure destroy or interfere with any property of the Company. (35) No person unless authorised by the Company or otherwise legally entitled so to do shall operate or interfere with any lock, lockgate, sluice, by pass, dam, weir, bridge or any other work connected with affecting or forming part of the Canal or with any vehicle, vessel, crane, jigger, hoist, capstan or other machinery or working appliance upon the Canal except in case of emergency. (36) No person unless authorised by the Company or otherwise legally entitled so to do shall (i) remain on any towpath after being requested to quit the same by any servant of the Company (ii) obstruct any towpath or interfere with the authorised use thereof (iii) leave open any gate or rail used as a fence alongside across or on any way leading to a towpath. (37) No person shall deface or alter any permit issued by the Company. Any person who is on the Company's property or is performing any act under or by virtue of a permit issued by the Company shall produce such permit to any duly authorised officer or servant of the Company whenever requested so to do. (38) No person shall (i) cause the Canal to be polluted (ii) discharge or permit to be discharged into the Canal any oil or spirit of any description or any mixture containing oil or spirit (iii) throw or deposit into or on the Canal or the banks towpaths or other works of the Canal any animal (alive or dead), stone, rubbish, matter or thing whatsoever. (39) No person without the written consent of the Company shall (i) connect any pipe culvert or drain to the Canal or permit any pipe culvert or drain to discharge on to any property of the Company (ii) take any water from the Canal (iii) bathe in the Canal (iv) take or kill any fish in the Canal or use any, gun net snare trap spear instrument or device for catching or killing any fish game or creature upon the Canal or the land of the Company (v) dredge or remove coal or other material from the Canal. (40) No person shall, without the Company's consent, float timber or any other material on the Canal or on any part thereof. (41) No person shall throw propel or project stones or other missiles from into or over any vessel or the Canal. (42) No person shall, without the Company's consent affix or exhibit any notice, sign or advertisement on or in any property of the Company.
The Common Seal of the Manchester Ship Canal Company was hereunto Affixed on the thirteenth day of April 1961 In the presence of:-
(two) Directors & Secretary
The Minister of Transport hereby confirms the foregoing Bye-laws. Signed on behalf of the Minister of Transport on the fifth day of June 1961 Signed K T Harrison Assistant Secretary.
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Post by kris on Aug 30, 2017 15:21:29 GMT
Good work Nigel
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Post by gigoguy on Aug 30, 2017 15:42:32 GMT
How low will Peel go?
I've just found out that a boat impounded in 2015 belonged to an ex army guy, vet of desert storm.
He fell foul of the bogus section 9 interpretation and had his boat impounded. Unfortunately he died in tragic circumstances not long after getting his boat back.
I've just found out that it was The Royal British Legion that paid the debt so he could get his home back.
Even though they knew they had no authority to take his boat. And had they followed the legislation all they needed to do was tow him to the nearest exit and leave him. No they defrauded The Royal British Legion out of best part of £3000!
That's Louise Morrisseey, Peter Parkinson and Sonny Smith for you
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Post by thebfg on Aug 30, 2017 16:11:16 GMT
not a lot going on in those then.
I would love to help take them down but I am not in a position to do so.
just for my benefit what is the definition of houseboat.
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Post by gigoguy on Aug 30, 2017 16:25:45 GMT
not a lot going on in those then. I would love to help take them down but I am not in a position to do so. just for my benefit what is the definition of houseboat. Dunno. I thought it was like a dutch barge permanently moored somewhere. But I spose it could be any boat that someone lives on. Or maybe no such thing exists. I mean if you lived on a plane that never flew. It wouldn't be called a house plane would it?
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Post by thebfg on Aug 30, 2017 16:56:12 GMT
not a lot going on in those then. I would love to help take them down but I am not in a position to do so. just for my benefit what is the definition of houseboat. Dunno. I thought it was like a dutch barge permanently moored somewhere. But I spose it could be any boat that someone lives on. Or maybe no such thing exists. I mean if you lived on a plane that never flew. It wouldn't be called a house plane would it? I thought it was a permanently moored home. No person shall use or permit the use of any vessel on the Canal as a club, shop, store, workshop, dwelling or houseboat without the written consent of the Company. however at a fiver and then 40 shillings a day. hardly worth worrying about.
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Post by gigoguy on Aug 30, 2017 17:05:06 GMT
Dunno. I thought it was like a dutch barge permanently moored somewhere. But I spose it could be any boat that someone lives on. Or maybe no such thing exists. I mean if you lived on a plane that never flew. It wouldn't be called a house plane would it? I thought it was a permanently moored home. No person shall use or permit the use of any vessel on the Canal as a club, shop, store, workshop, dwelling or houseboat without the written consent of the Company. however at a fiver and then 40 shillings a day. hardly worth worrying about. I'm sorry you've completely lost me. What are you talking about, where did house boats come from? In the thread not 'Hey where did house boats come from?'
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Post by thebfg on Aug 30, 2017 17:11:37 GMT
I thought it was a permanently moored home. No person shall use or permit the use of any vessel on the Canal as a club, shop, store, workshop, dwelling or houseboat without the written consent of the Company. however at a fiver and then 40 shillings a day. hardly worth worrying about. I'm sorry you've completely lost me. What are you talking about, where did house boats come from? In the thread not 'Hey where did house boats come from?' in Nigel's 1961 bylaws.
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Post by gigoguy on Aug 30, 2017 18:03:55 GMT
No they defrauded The Royal British Legion out of best part of £3000! That's Louise Morrisseey, Peter Parkinson and Sonny Smith for you Contact the Fraud Squad then (?) I have done. They passed me to trading standards. It's Peel Holdings mate they're above the law
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Post by gigoguy on Aug 30, 2017 18:04:36 GMT
I'm sorry you've completely lost me. What are you talking about, where did house boats come from? In the thread not 'Hey where did house boats come from?' in Nigel's 1961 bylaws. It doesn't apply to pleasure boats.
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