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Post by Telemachus on May 22, 2018 21:43:57 GMT
Is it just me or do others find the hysterical mawkish claptrap going on in the Grenfell “enquiry” rather distasteful? It goes without saying that the fire was a terrible tragedy - born out of incompetence, stupidity, greed, corruption etc. and each family affected has suffered catastrophically as a result. But surely an enquiry should be about what happened, why, and how to prevent it happening again? It shouldn’t be a vehicle for mawkish public wailing and sobbing that is so un-British. People should grieve in private, not using their grief to find their 15 minutes of fame. It just pisses me off that logic, analysis and “fixing the problem” are usurped by emotion - which will absolutely not fix the problem! We seem to be gripped by what my mother calls “Princess Diana Syndrome”. What on earth would we do if WW3 breaks out? No time to fight the enemy, only time for public wailing and sobbing because somebody died somewhere. We are doomed, I tell you!
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Post by Graham on May 22, 2018 22:03:06 GMT
The decision was taken to give the survivors a platform at the enquiry to express there feeling etc. These people are most likely suffering from PSTD etc. They have a need to be heard and understood.
I find your remarks about being "the hysterical mawkish claptrap" "distasteful" disgusting and lacking in any understanding of what has happened to these people.
I am wondering if on the 11th Day of the 11th Month you will call the demonstration of grief and remembrance around the country and in other countries you will call that hysterical mawkish claptrap and distasteful. What these people are doing is the same thing, nothing more and nothing less.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 22, 2018 22:07:39 GMT
Well, that didn't take long to kick off.
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Post by Stumpy on May 22, 2018 22:19:06 GMT
I am wondering if on the 11th Day of the 11th Month you will call the demonstration of grief and remembrance around the country and in other countries you will call that hysterical mawkish claptrap and distasteful. What these people are doing is the same thing, nothing more and nothing less. On the contrary Graham, Remembrance Sunday is to respect servicemen who have gave their lives, in the line of duty. Not some accident / incident like the Grenfell fire.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 22, 2018 22:26:50 GMT
I remember the Moorgate tube train crash, there was an enquiry by the Railway Inspectorate and several recommendations were implemented but I can't remember several days being devoted to in-depth homilies about the passengers who died.
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Post by Graham on May 22, 2018 22:33:48 GMT
I am wondering if on the 11th Day of the 11th Month you will call the demonstration of grief and remembrance around the country and in other countries you will call that hysterical mawkish claptrap and distasteful. What these people are doing is the same thing, nothing more and nothing less. On the contrary Graham, Remembrance Sunday is to respect servicemen who have gave their lives, in the line of duty. Not some accident / incident like the Grenfell fire. You miss the point - to the participants it is to express their grief to the public who watch it maybe be something else. The Grenfell survivors it is expressing their grief. Nothing different when you take it down to its basics. If it was the basic British public who took part at the cenotaph and at War Memorial through out the world I might agree but it is not it is the military and military retirees.
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Post by Telemachus on May 22, 2018 22:33:55 GMT
The decision was taken to give the survivors a platform at the enquiry to express there feeling etc. These people are most likely suffering from PSTD etc. They have a need to be heard and understood. I find your remarks about being "the hysterical mawkish claptrap" "distasteful" disgusting and lacking in any understanding of what has happened to these people. I am wondering if on the 11th Day of the 11th Month you will call the demonstration of grief and remembrance around the country and in other countries you will call that hysterical mawkish claptrap and distasteful. What these people are doing is the same thing, nothing more and nothing less. My point is that there is a place for grief. Funerals, for example. Remberance day? Well not really, considering these days most people don’t know someone who died in WW2 - but nevertheless it is good to remember just how awful war is. So I don’t have a problem with that. Well just a bit - it’s all about WWs and no-one gives much of a shit about modern wars eg Syria, which is pretty hypocritical IMO But an enquiry into a stupid and avoidable disaster such as Grenfell is not such a place. It’s point is to determine cause and find solutions to prevent recurrence. I’m sorry you are too thick to understand the difference. Yes as you say a decision was taken but this is my point, it was the wrong decision and as you might recall, a decision taken only as a result of populism and soshallmedia pressure. Which is bad! A proper and sensible person (the first chair) was booted out as a consequence and replaced by someone more touchy-feely and less dispassionate, cool and logical. Bad!
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 22, 2018 22:37:53 GMT
The decision was taken to give the survivors a platform at the enquiry to express there feeling etc. These people are most likely suffering from PSTD etc. They have a need to be heard and understood. I find your remarks about being "the hysterical mawkish claptrap" "distasteful" disgusting and lacking in any understanding of what has happened to these people. I am wondering if on the 11th Day of the 11th Month you will call the demonstration of grief and remembrance around the country and in other countries you will call that hysterical mawkish claptrap and distasteful. What these people are doing is the same thing, nothing more and nothing less. My point is that there is a place for grief. Funerals, for example. Remberance day? Well not really, considering these days most people don’t know someone who died in WW2 - but nevertheless it is good to remember just how awful war is. So I don’t have a problem with that. Well just a bit - it’s all about WWs and no-one gives much of a shit about modern wars eg Syria, which is pretty hypocritical IMO But an enquiry into a stupid and avoidable disaster such as Grenfell is not such a place. It’s point is to determine cause and find solutions to prevent recurrence. I’m sorry you are too thick to understand the difference. Tsk, and you were doing so well until the last bit.
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Post by Telemachus on May 22, 2018 22:44:24 GMT
My point is that there is a place for grief. Funerals, for example. Remberance day? Well not really, considering these days most people don’t know someone who died in WW2 - but nevertheless it is good to remember just how awful war is. So I don’t have a problem with that. Well just a bit - it’s all about WWs and no-one gives much of a shit about modern wars eg Syria, which is pretty hypocritical IMO But an enquiry into a stupid and avoidable disaster such as Grenfell is not such a place. It’s point is to determine cause and find solutions to prevent recurrence. I’m sorry you are too thick to understand the difference. Tsk, and you were doing so well until the last bit. Graham is an old git like me and has old fashioned values, including stiff upper lip. I fully well know that he agrees with my OP sentiment but just wants to argue for the sake of it. Bless! It wouldn’t do to disappoint him!
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Post by Graham on May 22, 2018 22:51:21 GMT
The decision was taken to give the survivors a platform at the enquiry to express there feeling etc. These people are most likely suffering from PSTD etc. They have a need to be heard and understood. I find your remarks about being "the hysterical mawkish claptrap" "distasteful" disgusting and lacking in any understanding of what has happened to these people. I am wondering if on the 11th Day of the 11th Month you will call the demonstration of grief and remembrance around the country and in other countries you will call that hysterical mawkish claptrap and distasteful. What these people are doing is the same thing, nothing more and nothing less. My point is that there is a place for grief. Funerals, for example. Remberance day? Well not really, considering these days most people don’t know someone who died in WW2 - but nevertheless it is good to remember just how awful war is. So I don’t have a problem with that. Well just a bit - it’s all about WWs and no-one gives much of a shit about modern wars eg Syria, which is pretty hypocritical IMO But an enquiry into a stupid and avoidable disaster such as Grenfell is not such a place. It’s point is to determine cause and find solutions to prevent recurrence. I’m sorry you are too thick to understand the difference. Yes as you say a decision was taken but this is my point, it was the wrong decision and as you might recall, a decision taken only as a result of populism and soshallmedia pressure. Which is bad! A proper and sensible person (the first chair) was booted out as a consequence and replaced by someone more touchy-feely and less dispassionate, cool and logical. Bad! Oh dear you have so little knowledge of the people who take part in Rememberance Day, we can't even bear to hold it on the correct day. These people were let down by people like you, people who are educated, you do claim to be educated, people who should be able to keep their politicians in check rather than voting for whoever promises you the most bounty in your pocket. Because this is a major fault of 8 plus years of Conservative government in it various forms, not keeping regulations up to date and not obeying the said regulations etc. It is the residents of Grenfell did not deserve to die as a result of political expediency and they certainly deserve to be treated better that you indicate you think they should be. All power to whoever took the decision and I suspect it came from above the Chairperson of the Enquiry.
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Post by Graham on May 22, 2018 22:57:08 GMT
Tsk, and you were doing so well until the last bit. Graham is an old git like me and has old fashioned values, including stiff upper lip. I fully well know that he agrees with my OP sentiment but just wants to argue for the sake of it. Bless! It wouldn’t do to disappoint him! Oh dear Mr Norman you have just demonstrated that you have no knowledge of how or what I think I certainly do not agree with anything yo have posted on this subject and my values old fashioned interesting. Think I might have move with the times and attitude more than you have. Poor you, still bruised from your removal
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Post by Telemachus on May 22, 2018 23:11:42 GMT
My point is that there is a place for grief. Funerals, for example. Remberance day? Well not really, considering these days most people don’t know someone who died in WW2 - but nevertheless it is good to remember just how awful war is. So I don’t have a problem with that. Well just a bit - it’s all about WWs and no-one gives much of a shit about modern wars eg Syria, which is pretty hypocritical IMO But an enquiry into a stupid and avoidable disaster such as Grenfell is not such a place. It’s point is to determine cause and find solutions to prevent recurrence. I’m sorry you are too thick to understand the difference. Yes as you say a decision was taken but this is my point, it was the wrong decision and as you might recall, a decision taken only as a result of populism and soshallmedia pressure. Which is bad! A proper and sensible person (the first chair) was booted out as a consequence and replaced by someone more touchy-feely and less dispassionate, cool and logical. Bad! Oh dear you have so little knowledge of the people who take part in Rememberance Day, we can't even bear to hold it on the correct day. These people were let down by people like you, people who are educated, you do claim to be educated, people who should be able to keep their politicians in check rather than voting for whoever promises you the most bounty in your pocket. Because this is a major fault of 8 plus years of Conservative government in it various forms, not keeping regulations up to date and not obeying the said regulations etc. It is the residents of Grenfell did not deserve to die as a result of political expediency and they certainly deserve to be treated better that you indicate you think they should be. All power to whoever took the decision and I suspect it came from above the Chairperson of the Enquiry. I nearly agree with most of that. Yes OK WW1 not WW2 - my typo! (which makes it worse IMO - the thing is stuck in 100 year old tradition and establishment, rather than reflecting the ongoing tragedy of war). The people were let down. But you are a fool if you think it was "people like me" because I spent a good deal of my career at the cutting edge of helicopter flight safety and in the process,, attacking and demolishing a good bit of the "establishment". You have no idea.
You want to blame the Tories, well I can't disagree too much with that but I suspect the same would have happened regardless of which party was in power. Bliar did much to bolster the power of commerce and industry and the trough. The residents of Grenfelll didn't deserve to die (well, one hopes not anyway) and that is exactly my point. The inquiry should focus on that, not on over-exuberant public displays of sentiment.
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Post by peterboat on May 22, 2018 23:14:31 GMT
My point is that there is a place for grief. Funerals, for example. Remberance day? Well not really, considering these days most people don’t know someone who died in WW2 - but nevertheless it is good to remember just how awful war is. So I don’t have a problem with that. Well just a bit - it’s all about WWs and no-one gives much of a shit about modern wars eg Syria, which is pretty hypocritical IMO But an enquiry into a stupid and avoidable disaster such as Grenfell is not such a place. It’s point is to determine cause and find solutions to prevent recurrence. I’m sorry you are too thick to understand the difference. Yes as you say a decision was taken but this is my point, it was the wrong decision and as you might recall, a decision taken only as a result of populism and soshallmedia pressure. Which is bad! A proper and sensible person (the first chair) was booted out as a consequence and replaced by someone more touchy-feely and less dispassionate, cool and logical. Bad! Oh dear you have so little knowledge of the people who take part in Rememberance Day, we can't even bear to hold it on the correct day. These people were let down by people like you, people who are educated, you do claim to be educated, people who should be able to keep their politicians in check rather than voting for whoever promises you the most bounty in your pocket. Because this is a major fault of 8 plus years of Conservative government in it various forms, not keeping regulations up to date and not obeying the said regulations etc. It is the residents of Grenfell did not deserve to die as a result of political expediency and they certainly deserve to be treated better that you indicate you think they should be. All power to whoever took the decision and I suspect it came from above the Chairperson of the Enquiry. The issue for me is that the building was covered by building regs and the cladding was supposed to be safe, if fire tests are cocked up whos fault is that? You could say it was the previous Labour government or anyones fault just point a finger and blame them. Now the stuff is used around the world, so no doubt others will be looking and taking notice, but will they if all they see is what Nick is complaining about? The whole thing is a total mess from start to finish, Sheffield has loads of buildings cladded like that which are going to cost a fortune to sort, and will be colder for it afterwards, because who in their right sense would replace it with anything else? Anyway what if if other reasons are discovered that caused the fire? but are buried because they are scared that it will incite a riot and of course nobody would believe it anyway even if it was the truth
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Post by Telemachus on May 22, 2018 23:15:48 GMT
Graham is an old git like me and has old fashioned values, including stiff upper lip. I fully well know that he agrees with my OP sentiment but just wants to argue for the sake of it. Bless! It wouldn’t do to disappoint him! Oh dear Mr Norman you have just demonstrated that you have no knowledge of how or what I think I certainly do not agree with anything yo have posted on this subject and my values old fashioned interesting. Think I might have move with the times and attitude more than you have. Poor you, still bruised from your removal I am thankful that I have no knowledge of how or what you think! (scary!) I only have knowledge of what you write on here. Yes perhaps you are a dreadlocked hipstaaaa and eat nothing but avocado toast, living your life on facebook/twatter/instragram (that I know to be true!) but I rather expected some more grounded thinking from you. Not sure why though!
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Post by Stumpy on May 22, 2018 23:33:18 GMT
My point is that there is a place for grief. Funerals, for example. Remberance day? Well not really, considering these days most people don’t know someone who died in WW2 - but nevertheless it is good to remember just how awful war is. So I don’t have a problem with that. Well just a bit - it’s all about WWs and no-one gives much of a shit about modern wars eg Syria, which is pretty hypocritical IMO But an enquiry into a stupid and avoidable disaster such as Grenfell is not such a place. It’s point is to determine cause and find solutions to prevent recurrence. I’m sorry you are too thick to understand the difference. Yes as you say a decision was taken but this is my point, it was the wrong decision and as you might recall, a decision taken only as a result of populism and soshallmedia pressure. Which is bad! A proper and sensible person (the first chair) was booted out as a consequence and replaced by someone more touchy-feely and less dispassionate, cool and logical. Bad! These people were let down by people like you, Don't think so Graham, These people were let down by the likes of .....Come to our country, we have plenty of resources and space to house you...Tony Bliar. You remember, that cowardly impertinent little shit. The war criminal that saw me dumped into Iraq the first time round for no reason, where I lost some very close personal friends. Do I have an out pouring of grief?....Answer...NO.
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