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Post by kris on May 24, 2018 10:18:05 GMT
Some interesting footage of Harkers barges, these are the kind of barges that are going to be most effected by the liscence increase.
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Post by JohnV on May 24, 2018 10:59:04 GMT
thanks for posting that Kris
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Post by kris on May 24, 2018 11:07:51 GMT
It's okay John, it turned up in my email this morning. I have to confess I know both people who speak in the video and whilst they might not be the most elequant, they are exspressing a real concern about the survival of the old working barges of the wide northern waterways. I can only think that it is an unforeseen consequence of carts that the liscence increase for widebeams will put a lot of these older boats into jeopardy. It would have been very easy if the liscence review was income neutral as claimed, to have exempted old working boats from the increases. They wouldn't have lost any income, but still have the desired outcome of discouraging modern widebeams.
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Post by bargemast on May 24, 2018 11:29:30 GMT
Some interesting footage of Harkers barges, these are the kind of barges that are going to be most effected by the liscence increase. What a great video Kris, too bad it's about the bad situation these barges and their owners are in, due to the raise in licence fees.
C&RT doesn't care about the waterways history, and even less about the people that are doing everything they can to keep an important part of it alive, without any help.
It would be more or less understandable if there would be hundreds of these barges left, but as there are only about 10, it doesn't sound fair and shows that the leaders of C&RT are pretty bad in doing their jobs in a "public interest".
Peter.
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Post by kris on May 24, 2018 11:36:03 GMT
I agree Peter, it would be really sad for the old commercial boats to not be afloat on the waterways they worked on originally. Enough of the old boats have gone already,a lot of the context of the waterways will be lost if the old commercial boats go.
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olive
Junior Member
Posts: 15
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Post by olive on May 24, 2018 11:50:36 GMT
I know both people who speak in the video Do you know if these barges get the 'historic boats' discount? Iknow it's only 10% but it might be a start? or maybe they could form a heritage charity of their own and get the 60% (i think) licence discount?
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Post by peterboat on May 24, 2018 12:02:27 GMT
I see these boat all the time so its easy to become blase about them, but when you chat to the owners you realise what a labour of love they are. Our waterways were made for these boats so why we are being punished for having boats designed for a system is beyond me? In the future CRT will be the one known for the destruction of our boating heritage because its obvious they care more about everybody else that uses the waterways than the boaters that keep them alive. Its all very sad and avoidable
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Post by kris on May 24, 2018 12:05:53 GMT
They will get the 10% historic boats discount, but itt would have been very easy to exempt historic widebeams ,if the liscence review was income neutral as claimed. They have formed a group it's mentioned in the video, I don't know if it's a charity though. There are only a few owners of old commercial barges , so we are a minority of a minority.
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olive
Junior Member
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Post by olive on May 24, 2018 12:34:20 GMT
I wonder whether the charity thing's worth looking at? I've just looked at the criteria to qualify - it might be worth setting up an 'educational' charity for the upkeep and maintenance of Hawkers barges? It can benefit the people who do the work - sounds like there's loads of learning in it all. Also, heritage value obviously - so keeping up the skills required to keep the boats on the water seems valid to me..
Just thought - another idea is to go for a judicial review - there's a 3 month time limit so that'd be 6th Jue - very close. But the grounds would be 'unreasonableness'. - Or irrationality and disproportionateness - it's clearly disproportionat - as the say, they're paying loads more yo use 5% of the system..
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Post by naughtyfox on May 24, 2018 14:59:10 GMT
Good video. We saw Freda Carless in Castleford.
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Post by JohnV on May 24, 2018 19:12:12 GMT
The whole thing stinks, CRT aided and abetted by the IWA have put at risk a boating heritage that is as important as those cherished, restored narrowboats so beloved of the IWA. Very much using the "They have more room than me so they should pay more" and the blinkered view that the only traditional boats are narrow.
It will be a crying shame if the few remaining big ex-working boats are driven from their traditional waters. There are too many already languishing in southern waters as houseboats.
Of course as the owner of what is probably the oldest surviving Harker tanker, I'm biased
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Post by bargemast on May 25, 2018 7:10:51 GMT
The whole thing stinks, CRT aided and abetted by the IWA have put at risk a boating heritage that is as important as those cherished, restored narrowboats so beloved of the IWA. Very much using the "They have more room than me so they should pay more" and the blinkered view that the only traditional boats are narrow. It will be a crying shame if the few remaining big ex-working boats are driven from their traditional waters. There are too many already languishing in southern waters as houseboats. Of course as the owner of what is probably the oldest surviving Harker tanker, I'm biased<iframe style="position: absolute; width: 24.200000000000045px; height: 5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_72081652" scrolling="no" width="24.200000000000045" height="5"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_94989800" scrolling="no" width="24.200000000000045" height="5"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 189px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_46975499" scrolling="no" width="24.200000000000045" height="5"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: 189px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_56619601" scrolling="no" width="24.200000000000045" height="5"></iframe> Biased or not John, what you write is all very true, C&RT and the IWA dont want to see anything else as historical than the old narrowboats.
It's hard to understand their point of view, it may have something to do with a mental disability, and their narrow minded madness.
You have every reason to be proud, to be the owner of the nicely restored- and probably oldest surviving of the Harker tankers
Peter.
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Post by kris on May 25, 2018 9:13:55 GMT
Unless this was an unforeseen consequence of the anti widebeam campaign being run by the iwa and cart, then it's obvious that cart don't care about the old working boats on the northern waterways. Which is strange seen as the current head of boating John horsfell has been the waterways manager in this area for a long while, so is aware of the boats in question.
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olive
Junior Member
Posts: 15
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Post by olive on May 25, 2018 9:26:01 GMT
To be honest, the only way it could be 'unforeseen' is if they literally didn't think about it at all (or read any of the consultation responses), or don't know anything about the waterways. I put on my consultation form that it might seem reasonable on narrow canals to charge more for wider boats, but it's definitely not reasonable on rivers and wide canals which traditionally were used by wider boats. I don't think they read my one.
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Post by kris on May 25, 2018 9:41:16 GMT
To be honest, the only way it could be 'unforeseen' is if they literally didn't think about it at all (or read any of the consultation responses), or don't know anything about the waterways. I put on my consultation form that it might seem reasonable on narrow canals to charge more for wider boats, but it's definitely not reasonable on rivers and wide canals which traditionally were used by wider boats. I don't think they read my one. It might be worth emailing John horsfell and voicing your concerns. Because according to him they have only had 5 complaints about the changes.
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