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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 8, 2018 23:38:07 GMT
On inspection I have 2 skin tanks, but only one is plumbed in. Anyhow... At low level the bilge is split into 4 parts. At the stern it looks like stern tube leaks a bit but well down from overflowing. Not worried about that. The right (top of pic) is dry. The left has rusty water. Probably rain from blocked rear drains. In the centre there is coolant so any leak if there is one is close to the engine. None of this has changed in almost a year since I've had the boat. One end of the calorifier connection in centre of photo... Other end with wire clip just visible, you can follow from grey pipes... That wire clip that you can't quite see wouldn't be my choice of hose clamp, but that's above the bilge with rusty water not coolant. As first priority I'd make sure that all's well with the engine cooling system and then track down the reason for nothing running through those grey plastic calorifier pipes afterwards, . . if that problem still persists after ensuring that the whole engine cooling system is completely full, free of air-locks, and that the coolant is circulating as it should be. In the bottom one of those three photos it looks as if the shorter length of rubber pipe (from the grey plastic pipes) is tee'd into the metal pipe (the 'out of sight' end of which goes to the waterpump) connected to the forard end of the gearbox oil cooler with the very short length of rubber and the two (green painted) Jubilee clips. Top up the header tank then disconnect that end of the (small dia.) rubber pipe from the tee-piece and check for presence of coolant and/or sludge. If no coolant runs out with the rubber pipe off and there are signs of sludge then it could be either the gearbox oil cooler blocked from the skin tank connection side, and/or the vent hole or jiggle-pin in the thermostat could be blocked or stuck and not letting the cylinder block jackets fill up with the coolant being displaced from the skin tank by the head of coolant above the thermostat via the header tank to skin tank hose, which should be on the upper of the two skin tank connections. If there's no sign of sludge/blockage and coolant flows out freely, re-make the hose connection, top up the header tank to the filler neck, and loosen/take out the air-bleed bung in the top of the thermostat housing. Replace the bung as soon as bubble free coolant starts flowing out of it, top up the header tank again and squeeze the (yellow stripe) rubber hose from the (lower) skin tank to the oil cooler a few times while watching the coolant level in the header tank filler neck for air bubbles and any change in level. Run the engine up to temperature with the filler cap off, repeating the hose squeezing and topping up as necessary whilst doing so. The two grey plastic pipe to rubber pipe connections look to me as if they might have a couple of check (one-way) valves incorporated in them, so if there's still nothing running through after eliminating the possibility of blockages and filling/bleeding the cooling system it might be worth opening them up to see if there are, and to make sure that they're both fitted the right way round in each pipe, and working in opposite directions to each other - flow to engine from calorifier coil is the pipe to the oil cooler tee-piece, and from engine to calorifier is the pipe from the fitting on the flywheel end of the cylinder head. With the alternator looking as if it's missing it's end cover, it'd be best to isolate the batteries and protect the exposed electrical bits with a thick folded cloth or something similar over it before wielding any spanners around those pipe couplings.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 9, 2018 7:13:12 GMT
Do you not have a mechanic at your marina who could have a look and advise? Seeking help and/or advice from the so-called engineers/fitters/mechanics at a great many marinas and boatyards sometimes turns out to be the least beneficial course of action a boater with engine, gearbox or sterngear problems can take. Given the number of boats I've fixed over the years that have either broken down or developed serious mechanical defects following expensive attention from some of these people, I'd say that a good many of them would struggle to maintain a pushbike in working order. There are good, competent and conscientious ones of course, but they're few and far between and best located through recommendation from someone who's had good service from them in the past. A good many of the worst and least competent ones seem to have breakdown call-out contracts with River Canal Rescue.
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Post by Andyberg on Jun 9, 2018 7:47:18 GMT
I went look at a non performing webasto for a boater on our marina..problem cutting out, not heating anything up.
Local boat 'engineer' had been and fitted a new diesel pump at £315(must be running short of fuel after 2 minutes running🙄) and when that didnt cure the problem, stitched a Heatmiser controller into him ( must have an intermittent fault knocking off heater🙄) at a further £500 😱😱
Still no change to heating, only a £800 lighter boatowner!
Actual problem was... there was a household 3 way valve fitted ( Why I dunno??) just down from the Webasto 'out' feed which someone had knocked the latch into closed Position causing webasto to overheat cut out, once opened heating worked perfectly again👍
Same 'engineer' did a diesel filterchange on a pals boat just before we headed to Liverpool docks, omitted to check filter rubber washer was fitted correctly resulting in pals bilges full of diesel by time he got to top of Rufford branch 3 hours later (must of sent wrong seal in filter box🙄)
For some reason, this chap is held in high regard by alot of the marina folk here and aways has plenty of work / cash in his pocket! 🙄
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 9, 2018 8:27:20 GMT
I certainly won't be engaging any so-called engineers. I haven't failed to fix the problem, I haven't even tried yet, but knowing nothing about water cooled diesels in particular I thought I'd ask a few questions to get me me on my way. Despite lack of water cooled diesel experience I'd still rebuild the top end (for example) if it needed it. It's just a simple engine, it doesn't frighten me.
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Post by Gone on Jun 9, 2018 8:50:55 GMT
fluid certainly would have come out had I not squashed the rubber hoses with a couple of spreader plates and a mole clamp Yesterday when I removed the lower pipe on our water pump - it comes direct from the keel cooling tank - I inserted a short length of plastic pipe with a 'pipe stop' at one end. I should not have liked to have crushed the old, thick hose with mole grips (plus wood protector plates) nor with a hose clamp, in case I damaged the hose - perhaps it might have split. If the rubber hoses are of an age where splitting is a real possibility when squashing them than I would change them, but it does look a bit brutal when you squash them.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 9, 2018 12:33:03 GMT
If the rubber hoses are of an age where splitting is a real possibility when squashing them than I would change them, but it does look a bit brutal when you squash them. I'd be happy to replace them - I don't know how old they are. No hurry, but I shall put it on my list and ask, perhaps at a car garage. Where does one buy hoses, I don't know... Any decent motor factors. Chandlery too but a little more pricey.
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Post by Gone on Jun 9, 2018 13:18:29 GMT
I'd be happy to replace them - I don't know how old they are. No hurry, but I shall put it on my list and ask, perhaps at a car garage. Where does one buy hoses, I don't know... Any decent motor factors. Chandlery too but a little more pricey. Just ask for car heater hose and give the id (internal diameter), oh and you don’t need the expensive colourful silicone stuff. Sold by the meter.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 13:33:47 GMT
Any decent motor factors. Chandlery too but a little more pricey. Just ask for car heater hose and give the id (internal diameter), oh and you don’t need the expensive colourful silicone stuff. Sold by the meter. This stuff is immeasurable better than bog standard automotive radiator hose. www.asap-supplies.com/hose/coolant-heater-hose
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 13:42:49 GMT
Do you not have a mechanic at your marina who could have a look and advise? Seeking help and/or advice from the so-called engineers/fitters/mechanics at a great many marinas and boatyards sometimes turns out to be the least beneficial course of action a boater with engine, gearbox or sterngear problems can take. Given the number of boats I've fixed over the years that have either broken down or developed serious mechanical defects following expensive attention from some of these people, I'd say that a good many of them would struggle to maintain a pushbike in working order. There are good, competent and conscientious ones of course, but they're few and far between and best located through recommendation from someone who's had good service from them in the past. A good many of the worst and least competent ones seem to have breakdown call-out contracts with River Canal Rescue. Had a classic example of this about 15 years ago. I used to travel around the canal system with my mum (we each had a 55ft narrow boat). Hers had a Beta BV1505 with a Hurth box. Anyway I did her servicing. One day I failed to put back the gearbox drain plug washer. Plug came out and gearbox ejected all the oil (ATF). Gearbox seized and stalled the engine. A "knowledgeable boat mechanic" said exchange gearbox £600 or something. I decided to try putting a spanner on the output coupling and try to free up the clutch plates. Which worked. Refill gearbox with atf replace drain plug with washer and all ok. I spoke to someone else who had the exact same problem and they ended up shelling out for the exchange gearbox... Too much bollocks and too many parasites.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 9, 2018 14:13:40 GMT
As first priority I'd make sure that all's well with the engine cooling system and then track down the reason for nothing running through those grey plastic calorifier pipes afterwards, . . if that problem still persists after ensuring that the whole engine cooling system is completely full, free of air-locks, and that the coolant is circulating as it should be. In the bottom one of those three photos it looks as if the shorter length of rubber pipe (from the grey plastic pipes) is tee'd into the metal pipe (the 'out of sight' end of which goes to the waterpump) connected to the forard end of the gearbox oil cooler with the very short length of rubber and the two (green painted) Jubilee clips. Top up the header tank then disconnect that end of the (small dia.) rubber pipe from the tee-piece and check for presence of coolant and/or sludge. If no coolant runs out with the rubber pipe off and there are signs of sludge then it could be either the gearbox oil cooler blocked from the skin tank connection side, and/or the vent hole or jiggle-pin in the thermostat could be blocked or stuck and not letting the cylinder block jackets fill up with the coolant being displaced from the skin tank by the head of coolant above the thermostat via the header tank to skin tank hose, which should be on the upper of the two skin tank connections. Coolant flows freely. Done as far as squeezing the yellow striped pipe. That particular pipe wouldn't squeeze if I stood on it. The best I could do was to note that it runs uphill all the way from the skin tank lower connection to the oil cooler. The other pipe run, from the top of the skin tank, if not downhill overall certainly takes a dive over the top of the gearbox. The ruuber part is squashable but nor air bubbles. I think I'll disconnect/loosen it at the tank end and see what's what. Not done yet due to non squashing yellow striped pipe but the engine has been run recently and the level was about 1" down from full, 3/4 litre when I started investigating today. The possible one way valves look like a hotch potch of what was in the van to convert from rubber hose to plastic pipe via copper pipe, they don't even match. Yes there looks to be a mechanical problem waiting at the pulley end, quite a collection of pulleys and belts, but that's for another day.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 16:49:06 GMT
But why is it better? And how to cut the ends - hacksaw? I had not thought of this before, but might measure our hoses and replace some of them. Just for fun, like. Trust me, it's miles better You can cut radiator hose with a craft knife. This you need a hacksaw minimum, preferably an angle grinder with a slitting disc.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 9, 2018 17:20:02 GMT
There are various signs that the top hose from the skin tank was once more or less level so by hoiking up the droopy bit and re-routing the calorifier pipes under rather than over it, waggling, topping up, rocking, topping up and more waggling so far I've replaced 7.5L or air with coolant and would still going but I've run out of antifreeze to mix in.
Definitely getting somewhere with this. 👍
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 9, 2018 17:45:55 GMT
There are various signs that the top hose from the skin tank was once more or less level so by hoiking up the droopy bit and re-routing the calorifier pipes under rather than over it, waggling, topping up, rocking, topping up and more waggling so far I've replaced 7.5L or air with coolant and would still going but I've run out of antifreeze to mix in. Definitely getting somewhere with this. 👍 Glad you're getting on alright, . . it sounds as if you're uncovering and solving some cooling system problems that the previous owner wasn't decent enough to tell you about. Is there any means of checking for, bleeding or getting rid of air-locks in the skin tank other than slackening the upper hose connection ?
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 9, 2018 18:03:19 GMT
There are various signs that the top hose from the skin tank was once more or less level so by hoiking up the droopy bit and re-routing the calorifier pipes under rather than over it, waggling, topping up, rocking, topping up and more waggling so far I've replaced 7.5L or air with coolant and would still going but I've run out of antifreeze to mix in. Definitely getting somewhere with this. 👍 Glad you're getting on alright, . . it sounds as if you're uncovering and solving some cooling system problems that the previous owner wasn't decent enough to tell you about. Is there any means of checking for, bleeding or getting rid of air-locks in the skin tank other than slackening the upper hose connection ? Not that I can see though the fit out isn't helpful with permanent flooring over the tank. It would be worth fitting a bleed valve I think and I have the technology to do that. I don't think the previous owners ever left the marina so wouldn't have been aware but everything they did do was half arsed and half hearted. I fixed lots of things already but only just got to the engine.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 10, 2018 4:43:59 GMT
Glad you're getting on alright, . . it sounds as if you're uncovering and solving some cooling system problems that the previous owner wasn't decent enough to tell you about. Is there any means of checking for, bleeding or getting rid of air-locks in the skin tank other than slackening the upper hose connection ? Not that I can see though the fit out isn't helpful with permanent flooring over the tank. It would be worth fitting a bleed valve I think and I have the technology to do that. I don't think the previous owners ever left the marina so wouldn't have been aware but everything they did do was half arsed and half hearted. I fixed lots of things already but only just got to the engine. Before you complete the job of 'burping' the engine cooling system and filling it to capacity with fresh antifreeze/water mixture, it would be worthwhile checking that all the pipework is running to and from the correct connections on skin tank and engine, and that the one skin tank that's in use is of adequate size for that engine. To gain some thermo-siphon assistance for the engine circulating pump and to supply the engine with the coolest water from the skin tank the 28mm dia. hose stub (coolant inlet) on the after end of the gearbox oil cooler must be connected to the lower connection on the skin tank, and the 28mm hose stub (coolant outlet) on the forard underside of the header tank must connect to the upper connection on the skin tank. The skin tank itself must cover 1 sq. ft. of shell plating for every 4 bhp the engine is capable of producing, and should include one horizontal baffle plate at half height with the inlet and outlet connections at the same end of the tank. I would be inclined to make that fixed flooring above the skin tanks removeable, . . not necessarily loose and instantly liftable, but even if it meant a few minutes work with a spanner and/or a screwdriver to get it out of the way, the access would be so much better for routine maintenance jobs like belt adjustment or replacement. Also if your boat carries any stern trim the skin tank air venting plug, or possibly plugs, you're thinking of installing need to be positioned at the forard ends of tanks.
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