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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 7:38:12 GMT
Stop planks are apparently in place at bridge 29, New Mills, so boats cannot get in or out of the Whaley Bridge area.
That is seriously going to affect lock operations at Bosley and Marple, therefore closing seems the correct decision.
I understand that if the dam should go, the sheer weight of water could cause untold damage to the canal infrastructure for quite some distance, on top of the obvious local damage.
Hope the outcome is as positive as Ulley's a few years ago.
Rog
ETA I feel slightly guilty interrupting your 'crayoning' with serious posts, so sorry.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 2, 2019 8:21:28 GMT
Has it collapsed yet? Wake me up when it does.
This will provide work for the local unemployed, right?
Whose idea was it to build a town right below a reservoir, anyway?
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 2, 2019 8:42:57 GMT
Stop planks are apparently in place at bridge 29, New Mills, so boats cannot get in or out of the Whaley Bridge area. That is seriously going to affect lock operations at Bosley and Marple, therefore closing seems the correct decision. I understand that if the dam should go, the sheer weight of water could cause untold damage to the canal infrastructure for quite some distance, on top of the obvious local damage. Hope the outcome is as positive as Ulley's a few years ago. Rog ETA I feel slightly guilty interrupting your 'crayoning' with serious posts, so sorry. Closing the locks now makes some sense. What makes less sense is putting stop planks in. OK, this prevents boats from entering the area but equally, prevents boats from escaping. The water being pumped from the reservoir has to go somewhere. At the moment it will all be going into the river Goyt. Would it not have made more sense to share the load a little, allowing some of the water to flow down the canal to dissipate via the various overspills that exist north of Bosley? Obviously not possible, now that stop planks are in.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 8:58:40 GMT
Stop planks are apparently in place at bridge 29, New Mills, so boats cannot get in or out of the Whaley Bridge area. That is seriously going to affect lock operations at Bosley and Marple, therefore closing seems the correct decision. I understand that if the dam should go, the sheer weight of water could cause untold damage to the canal infrastructure for quite some distance, on top of the obvious local damage. Hope the outcome is as positive as Ulley's a few years ago. Rog ETA I feel slightly guilty interrupting your 'crayoning' with serious posts, so sorry. Closing the locks now makes some sense. What makes less sense is putting stop planks in. OK, this prevents boats from entering the area but equally, prevents boats from escaping. The water being pumped from the reservoir has to go somewhere. At the moment it will all be going into the river Goyt. Would it not have made more sense to share the load a little, allowing some of the water to flow down the canal to dissipate via the various overspills that exist north of Bosley? Obviously not possible, now that stop planks are in. Given the conditions of some banks, I'm not sure the canals could carry the extra water without causing more problems. CRT have been running the system on low for a couple of years, so some banks could be weak.
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Post by thebfg on Aug 2, 2019 9:06:01 GMT
Closing the locks now makes some sense. What makes less sense is putting stop planks in. OK, this prevents boats from entering the area but equally, prevents boats from escaping. The water being pumped from the reservoir has to go somewhere. At the moment it will all be going into the river Goyt. Would it not have made more sense to share the load a little, allowing some of the water to flow down the canal to dissipate via the various overspills that exist north of Bosley? Obviously not possible, now that stop planks are in. Given the conditions of some banks, I'm not sure the canals could carry the extra water without causing more problems. CRT have been running the system on low for a couple of years, so some banks could be weak. The upper peak forest is already at the top of the bank. It won't take much to overflow.
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Post by samsam on Aug 2, 2019 9:09:32 GMT
There is a little voice in my head that keeps saying that if the trees growing out of the spillway had been removed and the joints in the slabs repointed then this failure would not of happened.
The slabs failed at the top of the dam, not the bottom where the most turbulence would be, leading me to think that the increase in water going over the spillway is not the prime cause of failure.
But then I am not the chartered civil engineer with a record of failures and errors since I took up the position. Minworth, Marple Locks, Middlewich Branch, Hurleston, LLangollen.
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Post by kris on Aug 2, 2019 9:11:26 GMT
Closing the locks now makes some sense. What makes less sense is putting stop planks in. OK, this prevents boats from entering the area but equally, prevents boats from escaping. The water being pumped from the reservoir has to go somewhere. At the moment it will all be going into the river Goyt. Would it not have made more sense to share the load a little, allowing some of the water to flow down the canal to dissipate via the various overspills that exist north of Bosley? Obviously not possible, now that stop planks are in. Given the conditions of some banks, I'm not sure the canals could carry the extra water without causing more problems. CRT have been running the system on low for a couple of years, so some banks could be weak. No could be about it.
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Post by thebfg on Aug 2, 2019 9:19:38 GMT
A statement from Derbyshire constabulary. You will note they do not mention CRT.
A further update has been issued this morning regarding the ongoing incident at Toddbrook Reservoir in Whaley Bridge.
Officers have been assisted overnight by a wide number of partner agencies including the fire service who have sent firefighters from across the country, the Environment Agency, the ambulance service, local councils and emergency planning staff.
We were also assisted overnight by RAF crews who used a Chinook helicopter to move more than 50 tonnes of aggregate into the reservoir wall to reinforce it.
This work was done in conjunction with expert structural engineers, who have been advising the emergency response since yesterday afternoon.
Throughout the day, work will continue to further shore up the reservoir wall. The Chinook will also be dropping aggregate into other parts of the reservoir today, to stem the flow of water going into it.
There are also a total of 16 high volume water pumps which have been installed in the reservoir, in order to reduce the water levels. These have been provided by fire services from across the country and the Canal and River Trust.
Assistant Chief Constable Kem Mehmet, said: “Our message today remains the same as there is still a risk the dam will fail, please stay away from the area.
“If you are asked to leave, please heed emergency services and expert advice and do so. We understand that being asked to leave your home is an extremely difficult and worrying situation to find yourself in, however it is not a decision we have taken lightly and ultimately the safety of the public is our main concern.
“The evacuation point at Chapel High School, Long Lane, Chapel-en-le-Frith, High Peak, SK23 0TQ, will remain open today and residents will be accommodated if they are unable to make alternative arrangements.
“We have evacuated more than 1,000 people from the areas that would be immediately affected by floodwater should the wall fail.
“The majority have been able to find accommodation with family and friends. About 40 people have also been put up in a local hotel and they will be looked after today.
“We don’t know how long this operation will take to conclude but we and our colleagues in the emergency services, partner agencies, Environment Agency and military are doing everything humanly possible to save the reservoir wall and to protect the town.”
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 9:33:15 GMT
A statement from Derbyshire constabulary. You will note they do not mention CRT. A further update has been issued this morning regarding the ongoing incident at Toddbrook Reservoir in Whaley Bridge. Officers have been assisted overnight by a wide number of partner agencies including the fire service who have sent firefighters from across the country, the Environment Agency, the ambulance service, local councils and emergency planning staff. We were also assisted overnight by RAF crews who used a Chinook helicopter to move more than 50 tonnes of aggregate into the reservoir wall to reinforce it. This work was done in conjunction with expert structural engineers, who have been advising the emergency response since yesterday afternoon. Throughout the day, work will continue to further shore up the reservoir wall. The Chinook will also be dropping aggregate into other parts of the reservoir today, to stem the flow of water going into it. There are also a total of 16 high volume water pumps which have been installed in the reservoir, in order to reduce the water levels. These have been provided by fire services from across the country and the Canal and River Trust. Assistant Chief Constable Kem Mehmet, said: “Our message today remains the same as there is still a risk the dam will fail, please stay away from the area. “If you are asked to leave, please heed emergency services and expert advice and do so. We understand that being asked to leave your home is an extremely difficult and worrying situation to find yourself in, however it is not a decision we have taken lightly and ultimately the safety of the public is our main concern. “The evacuation point at Chapel High School, Long Lane, Chapel-en-le-Frith, High Peak, SK23 0TQ, will remain open today and residents will be accommodated if they are unable to make alternative arrangements. “We have evacuated more than 1,000 people from the areas that would be immediately affected by floodwater should the wall fail. “The majority have been able to find accommodation with family and friends. About 40 people have also been put up in a local hotel and they will be looked after today. “We don’t know how long this operation will take to conclude but we and our colleagues in the emergency services, partner agencies, Environment Agency and military are doing everything humanly possible to save the reservoir wall and to protect the town.” I suspect that early on it was recognised that CRT were out of their depth, and subsequently sidelined. Personally, I think there may be issues on maintenance, and this was picked up pretty early on in the incident. CRT were also slow to respond, and basically did little overnight to either deal with, or reassure the locals. Parry recognised immediately that he was in shit, and consequently sputtered his way through an interview on newsnight.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 9:45:26 GMT
My view... Looking at the response rather than prior maintenance.
CRT would not (and shouldn't have) the response available to take any sort of lead in this sort of scale of incident other than providing advice to the main responders, providing what pumps they have (which they seem to have done), also providing advice to boaters in the area (which seems lacking, again in my view).
As long as the dam doesn't overtop again I suspect it will hold.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 2, 2019 9:53:57 GMT
There is a little voice in my head that keeps saying that if the trees growing out of the spillway had been removed and the joints in the slabs repointed then this failure would not of happened. The slabs failed at the top of the dam, not the bottom where the most turbulence would be, leading me to think that the increase in water going over the spillway is not the prime cause of failure. But then I am not the chartered civil engineer with a record of failures and errors since I took up the position. Minworth, Marple Locks, Middlewich Branch, Hurleston, LLangollen. Couldn't agree more ! This mess is nothing to do with freak rainfall and water running across an overflow and spillway that was designed and built to perform exactly that function. The present problems with the dam are the predictable, and preventable, consequences of neglect of a strikingly similar nature to that which led to the Middlewich breach. At Middlewich the towpath had settled/sunk allowing water to run over the top edge of the steep earth embankment and soak the surrounding ground until it became unstable enough to slip. At Whaley Bridge the same situation is in the process of developing, the only difference being that this time the cracked bottom of a concrete spillway, with trees growing through the cracks, is doing the job that the sunken towpath did at Middlewich.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 10:03:55 GMT
There is a little voice in my head that keeps saying that if the trees growing out of the spillway had been removed and the joints in the slabs repointed then this failure would not of happened. The slabs failed at the top of the dam, not the bottom where the most turbulence would be, leading me to think that the increase in water going over the spillway is not the prime cause of failure. But then I am not the chartered civil engineer with a record of failures and errors since I took up the position. Minworth, Marple Locks, Middlewich Branch, Hurleston, LLangollen. Couldn't agree more ! This mess is nothing to do with freak rainfall and water running across an overflow and spillway that was designed and built to perform exactly that function. The present problems with the dam overflow spillway are the predictable consequences of neglect of a strikingly similar nature to that which led to the Middlewich breach. At Middlewich the towpath had settled/sunk allowing water to run over the top edge of the steep earth embankment and soak the surrounding ground until it became unstable enough to slip. At Whaley Bridge the same situation is in the process of developing, the only difference being that this time the cracked bottom of a concrete spillway, with trees growing through the cracks, is doing the job that the sunken towpath did at Middlewich. Or else a boater shut the paddles on the relief chamber.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 2, 2019 10:24:03 GMT
Records of maintenance - are these being looked at? Or being shredded and burnt as we speaketh, to hide the evidence and claim they "could not be found"?
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Post by kris on Aug 2, 2019 10:25:36 GMT
A statement from Derbyshire constabulary. You will note they do not mention CRT. A further update has been issued this morning regarding the ongoing incident at Toddbrook Reservoir in Whaley Bridge. Officers have been assisted overnight by a wide number of partner agencies including the fire service who have sent firefighters from across the country, the Environment Agency, the ambulance service, local councils and emergency planning staff. We were also assisted overnight by RAF crews who used a Chinook helicopter to move more than 50 tonnes of aggregate into the reservoir wall to reinforce it. This work was done in conjunction with expert structural engineers, who have been advising the emergency response since yesterday afternoon. Throughout the day, work will continue to further shore up the reservoir wall. The Chinook will also be dropping aggregate into other parts of the reservoir today, to stem the flow of water going into it. There are also a total of 16 high volume water pumps which have been installed in the reservoir, in order to reduce the water levels. These have been provided by fire services from across the country and the Canal and River Trust. Assistant Chief Constable Kem Mehmet, said: “Our message today remains the same as there is still a risk the dam will fail, please stay away from the area. “If you are asked to leave, please heed emergency services and expert advice and do so. We understand that being asked to leave your home is an extremely difficult and worrying situation to find yourself in, however it is not a decision we have taken lightly and ultimately the safety of the public is our main concern. “The evacuation point at Chapel High School, Long Lane, Chapel-en-le-Frith, High Peak, SK23 0TQ, will remain open today and residents will be accommodated if they are unable to make alternative arrangements. “We have evacuated more than 1,000 people from the areas that would be immediately affected by floodwater should the wall fail. “The majority have been able to find accommodation with family and friends. About 40 people have also been put up in a local hotel and they will be looked after today. “We don’t know how long this operation will take to conclude but we and our colleagues in the emergency services, partner agencies, Environment Agency and military are doing everything humanly possible to save the reservoir wall and to protect the town.” I suspect that early on it was recognised that CRT were out of their depth, and subsequently sidelined. Personally, I think there may be issues on maintenance, and this was picked up pretty early on in the incident. CRT were also slow to respond, and basically did little overnight to either deal with, or reassure the locals. Parry recognised immediately that he was in shit, and consequently sputtered his way through an interview on newsnight. I must have a look at parry on newsnight. The reality is cart have no equipment or manpower for a situation like this anymore, despite having many similar responsibilities to this dam.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 2, 2019 10:27:24 GMT
Action should be methodic:
1. Cover arse.
2. Err.... that's about it.
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