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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 7:07:27 GMT
No mention of a ‘deal’ was offered on the voting slip over 3 years ago. The majority of the ‘people’ voted to exit the the EU. Our government should have walked us out of the EU without a deal there and then. Not on the voting slip itself but Cameron did say in 2013 that there would be negotiations with the EU BEFORE the plebiscite. Did that happen? Did the UK negotiate an arrangement with the EU first or did that happen afterwards. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282I think there should be a vote to oblige Mr Cameron to come back and steer the ship.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 5, 2019 7:13:41 GMT
No mention of a ‘deal’ was offered on the voting slip over 3 years ago. The majority of the ‘people’ voted to exit the the EU. Our government should have walked us out of the EU without a deal there and then. Not on the voting slip itself but Cameron did say in 2013 that there would be negotiations with the EU BEFORE the plebiscite. Did that happen? Did the UK negotiate an arrangement with the EU first or did that happen afterwards. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282I think there should be a vote to oblige Mr Cameron to come back and steer the ship. Yes, Cameron spent some time negotiating before the referendum. The results were meagre, an emergency brake on freedom of movement if certain criteria were met was considered insufficient. Certainly, with hindsight, it was. I guess it was an opportunity for the EU to cement the UK's membership by offering solutions that would be popular with people but as ever, the organisation put its own interests above that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 7:15:57 GMT
No mention of a ‘deal’ was offered on the voting slip over 3 years ago. The majority of the ‘people’ voted to exit the the EU. Our government should have walked us out of the EU without a deal there and then. Not on the voting slip itself but Cameron did say in 2013 that there would be negotiations with the EU BEFORE the plebiscite. Did that happen? Did the UK negotiate an arrangement with the EU first or did that happen afterwards. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282I think there should be a vote to oblige Mr Cameron to come back and steer the ship. That’s a fair point actually. Obviously the public should have been told what any deal was in advance, before voting....but Cameron was cock sure we’d vote to stay in. If the deal was to stay in the common market, I wonder what the result would have been? Of course that option no longer existed because it had become an undemocratic state ages ago.
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Post by Jim on Sept 5, 2019 8:03:30 GMT
Of course, as I said, it turned out to be another tory lie. So you agree that the Government should implement what the people decided? Well, 350m a week would do nicely, help the nhs no end. The best and quickest deal ever would be ok by me too. That's what people voted for after all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 8:28:03 GMT
Not happy about this, would anyone care to suggest how this is democracy?
Boris has called ‘people power to force an election’. That sounds pretty democratic to me. I suppose Boris de piffle just wanted to call an election so he might at least win one vote as PM before he is consigned to the political dustbin!
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 5, 2019 8:34:32 GMT
Things would certainly be different if I were in charge. All for the better. Although I am never sure where the border lies in the abortion and euthanasia issues. And gun control / right to bear arms is another hard one.
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Post by Jim on Sept 5, 2019 8:39:57 GMT
Things would certainly be different if I were in charge. All for the better. Although I am never sure where the border lies in the abortion and euthanasia issues. And gun control / right to bear arms is another hard one. Hiel naughtyfox!
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Post by Jim on Sept 5, 2019 8:44:32 GMT
No mention of a ‘deal’ was offered on the voting slip over 3 years ago. The majority of the ‘people’ voted to exit the the EU. Our government should have walked us out of the EU without a deal there and then. Not on the voting slip itself but Cameron did say in 2013 that there would be negotiations with the EU BEFORE the plebiscite. Did that happen? Did the UK negotiate an arrangement with the EU first or did that happen afterwards. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282I think there should be a vote to oblige Mr Cameron to come back and steer the ship. He'll struggle. It's been scuppered by the current captain at the behest of his piratical Spad, all the competent crew thrown over to the sharks, it's wallowing on the rocks and breaking up.
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Post by peterboat on Sept 5, 2019 8:49:41 GMT
So you agree that the Government should implement what the people decided? Well, 350m a week would do nicely, help the nhs no end. The best and quickest deal ever would be ok by me too. That's what people voted for after all. I voted for leave a good deal if available was ok but WTO leave was just fine and dandy! And I mean the EU is doing so well, looks like the IMF might have to help because its thought the ECBs plans arnt going to work, just hope it goes down in late October! then remainers will see what a close call they have had by nearly staying attached to the EU
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Post by Jim on Sept 5, 2019 8:55:12 GMT
Well, 350m a week would do nicely, help the nhs no end. The best and quickest deal ever would be ok by me too. That's what people voted for after all. I voted for leave a good deal if available was ok but WTO leave was just fine and dandy! And I mean the EU is doing so well, looks like the IMF might have to help because its thought the ECBs plans arnt going to work, just hope it goes down in late October! then remainers will see what a close call they have had by nearly staying attached to the EU When we vote in an election we just vote for the mp/party, the manifesto isn't printed on the voting slip, we vote for what we are told is the agenda, the promise. Many were fooled by the tory lies.
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Post by thebfg on Sept 5, 2019 9:25:35 GMT
I voted for leave a good deal if available was ok but WTO leave was just fine and dandy! And I mean the EU is doing so well, looks like the IMF might have to help because its thought the ECBs plans arnt going to work, just hope it goes down in late October! then remainers will see what a close call they have had by nearly staying attached to the EU When we vote in an election we just vote for the mp/party, the manifesto isn't printed on the voting slip, we vote for what we are told is the agenda, the promise. Many were fooled by the tory lies. Even more were fooled by Blair's, all those years ago. After all this I can see less and less people bothering to vote.
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Post by ianali on Sept 5, 2019 12:11:48 GMT
Well, 350m a week would do nicely, help the nhs no end. The best and quickest deal ever would be ok by me too. That's what people voted for after all. I voted for leave a good deal if available was ok but WTO leave was just fine and dandy! And I mean the EU is doing so well, looks like the IMF might have to help because its thought the ECBs plans arnt going to work, just hope it goes down in late October! then remainers will see what a close call they have had by nearly staying attached to the EU The Eu like is are in recession. No better, no worse. I see even Your great leaders family are seeing through his lies.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 13:24:17 GMT
Things would certainly be different if I were in charge. All for the better. Although I am never sure where the border lies in the abortion and euthanasia issues. And gun control / right to bear arms is another hard one. Hiel naughtyfox ! The disturbing part is that children must get on his bus.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 5, 2019 13:48:21 GMT
The disturbing part is that children must get on his bus. No amount of counselling can repair the psychological damage I've inflicted on them.
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Post by lollygagger on Sept 5, 2019 19:35:33 GMT
1st past the post Party political Parliamentary democracy is a terrible thing IMO.
A political party can gain control of everybody's futures even when more people nationally have voted for a different party and/or a larger percentage of voters who definitely didn't want those barstewards who won to wield absolute power over their lives. The big sweeping changes the winning parties make more often than not never appeared in their manifestos. Promises made in those manifestos are routinely broken. Too much time is spent undoing things the previous party in charge did, and making unnecessarily large changes and commitments in order that they become prohibitively expensive or legally impossible to undo. The few hundred MPs who make up that overall majority are people who have been chosen or approved by a small central cadre of whichever party they think they have the best chance of succeeding with, or a local self serving party cadre towing the central cadre line. I wonder how many stand in their home areas and how many fostered out by their central cadres? One of my sister in laws worked tirelessly for New Labour when they were flavour of the time and now she's a conservative councillor. When asked how she squared that she said "there's no point working for the losers, I'm just doing what anyone with any sense does if they want to progress." I think she'd like to be an MP and sadly I believe her moral free view of political life is realistic and not untypical. When they get to parliament, they can say more or less what they like, but they must vote as they're told to by their party Central cadre. Democracy in action - MPs sometimes voting against their beliefs and often voting against the wishes of the majority of their constituants who I believe they are supposed to represent? Are we happy that whenever something that actually matters is put to the vote our local MPs put the wishes of their party central cadre ahead of their constituants? They don't have any choice, tow the line or F off, we'll get another one. Voting against your party whip is allowed when it will not effect the outcome either way of course but what's the point other than theatre? If we really must have this party political constituency-unrepresentative style of faux democracy, it would be a start if the number of number of MPs of each flavour was the same proportion as their national vote. It would still be sh1t though. I think the most irksome result of our system is the black and white choice of being governed by a gang of robber barons or a bunch of lefties stuck in the 70's. God help us. I agree with a lot of this but let’s not forget that proper democracy means ‘the people’ have the power. I totally agree that we have been living in a fake democracy for a long time. However the next step is to remove the last remaining part of democracy, which is to remove the peoples vote. Once this happens we are one step towards a dictatorship. Once you take away choice, you remove freedom. I’m not sure how far the pendulum will swing before we see action on the streets, but I doubt it would be long. After all the majority voted to leave the dictatorship called the EU state. The British way as to write a stern letter then fizzle out. There will be no riots, or maybe just a quick one or two. But back to our stupid democracy. In a general election, many constituencies are "safe" seats. These can be ignored because their populations always vote the same. The election is decided on the seats that swing. In these constituencies, a chunk of of voters will always vote the same - They at least understand whether they are naturally a Tory or ...not. That leaves the swinging voters - those are people who don't know much of anything about politics, believe what they hear and feel it their duty to vote. One year they're a Tory, next year they're a Socialist because they can't even tell the difference, that's how genned up they are. These people choose our governments, not the people who have any understanding - it's the floating voters who clearly don't know what they're doing who choose and they must decide purely on the usual lies told during the campaign or they wouldn't keep changing their minds.
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