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Post by JohnV on Nov 10, 2019 8:07:10 GMT
talking to friends who are still running businesses and not retired, labour is their biggest headache.
Older workers who may not be as fit, are a bit slower moving around but often do more and better work in a day and are less likely to be found standing round looking dozy.
Young lads taken on (that I have observed) need to be led by the hand to each new job otherwise they will happily stand and do nothing all day. Very few will look round to see what is needed next. There also seems to be a complete inability to use even basic hand tools .... Is no one taught how to use a handsaw, hammer or paintbrush ? Have we a new generation who have never helped their parents doing basic maintenance jobs ? You don't need to be a genius to know how to use a paint roller ..... you don't expect people to be an expert straight away but they should be able to slap paint on and get more on the object concerned than the surroundings and themselves.
Appalling time keeping and almost bursting into tears when forced to leave their smart phone in the changing area.
One friend calls it "estate mentality"
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 10, 2019 8:11:37 GMT
talking to friends who are still running businesses and not retired, labour is their biggest headache. Older workers who may not be as fit, are a bit slower moving around but often do more and better work in a day and are less likely to be found standing round looking dozy. Young lads taken on (that I have observed) need to be led by the hand to each new job otherwise they will happily stand and do nothing all day. Very few will look round to see what is needed next. There also seems to be a complete inability to use even basic hand tools .... Is no one taught how to use a handsaw, hammer or paintbrush ? Have we a new generation who have never helped their parents doing basic maintenance jobs ? You don't need to be a genius to know how to use a paint roller ..... you don't expect people to be an expert straight away but they should be able to slap paint on and get more on the object concerned than the surroundings and themselves. Appalling time keeping and almost bursting into tears when forced to leave their smart phone in the changing area. One friend calls it "estate mentality" Yes I certainly think it is a modern ill that younger folk don’t have a clue about anything practical, beyond poking their smartphones. It is all part of the decline and fall of human civilisation. Come the apocalypse (ie when internet/phones stop working), they will be doomed!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 9:48:20 GMT
I have worked with loads of young people over the past few years winter work as a 'christmas elf'. I suspect we were all shy, nervous, timid, clueless and insecure as teenagers but learned by example and with growing experience, blossomed. I believe it's entirely possible to forget that the skills we take for granted were 'learned behaviours' ... we none of us walked into the work place at 15 or 16 the finished article (21 or 22 in the case of the classicists amongst us ). It's important that we strive to be as good teachers, mentors and examples as we were fortunate to experience in our 'spotty' youth. Rog
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Post by Andyberg on Nov 10, 2019 9:54:31 GMT
talking to friends who are still running businesses and not retired, labour is their biggest headache. Older workers who may not be as fit, are a bit slower moving around but often do more and better work in a day and are less likely to be found standing round looking dozy. Young lads taken on (that I have observed) need to be led by the hand to each new job otherwise they will happily stand and do nothing all day. Very few will look round to see what is needed next. There also seems to be a complete inability to use even basic hand tools .... Is no one taught how to use a handsaw, hammer or paintbrush ? Have we a new generation who have never helped their parents doing basic maintenance jobs ? You don't need to be a genius to know how to use a paint roller ..... you don't expect people to be an expert straight away but they should be able to slap paint on and get more on the object concerned than the surroundings and themselves. Appalling time keeping and almost bursting into tears when forced to leave their smart phone in the changing area. One friend calls it "estate mentality" Yes I certainly think it is a modern ill that younger folk don’t have a clue about anything practical, beyond poking their smartphones. I presume you’re talking from experience here in actually dealing with ‘younger folk’ ? Id be interested to hear What you base your assumption on. Having worked both a young lad and a young girl through a technical engineering apprenticeship, plus taking a keen interest in my own daughters current chemical engineering apprenticeship, I have to disagree with your assumption. your comment is a bit generalistic and just a tad patronising! Im sure both my ex apprentices would sit in awe hearing about your degree achieved in ‘tv valve technology’ or WTF 1960’s antiquated crap you spent all your early adult years sat on your arse freeloading studying! 😂😂
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Post by kris on Nov 10, 2019 10:51:21 GMT
talking to friends who are still running businesses and not retired, labour is their biggest headache. Older workers who may not be as fit, are a bit slower moving around but often do more and better work in a day and are less likely to be found standing round looking dozy. Young lads taken on (that I have observed) need to be led by the hand to each new job otherwise they will happily stand and do nothing all day. Very few will look round to see what is needed next. There also seems to be a complete inability to use even basic hand tools .... Is no one taught how to use a handsaw, hammer or paintbrush ? Have we a new generation who have never helped their parents doing basic maintenance jobs ? You don't need to be a genius to know how to use a paint roller ..... you don't expect people to be an expert straight away but they should be able to slap paint on and get more on the object concerned than the surroundings and themselves. Appalling time keeping and almost bursting into tears when forced to leave their smart phone in the changing area. One friend calls it "estate mentality" I dont know about estate mentallity. When i worked for crt a few years ago, i had one lad. Well lad he was 22, phone me the night before at nine o'clock to ask which bus he had to catch to get to work tommorrow. I politely pointed out i was a work collegue and i think he was mistaking me for his mother.
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Post by peterboat on Nov 10, 2019 11:11:39 GMT
Like you I do all these jobs myself, maybe its for the same reasons as you? I find google a great tool for getting clues on what may have gone wrong with something then fixing it. As for your Polish plumbers often they arnt as good as you think, One of my mates is Peter who owns PC Kellys its a largish plumbers and they have tried them in the past but to many complaints about shoddy work has stopped that. They now bring lads on training them up themselves get better results they find. As always they get complaints but often their are two sides to a story, and that might be the case with your repair Well to be honest I’ve never had a polish plumber. No tittering at the back! but generally Eastern Europeans seem more hard working and better at customer service than fat lazy Brits. However apprenticeships for locals are to be totally commended. As to sides of the story, how many sides can there be to a tap installed incorrectly on 2 counts, which falls off after 4 weeks? I just wondered who your letting agent employed and how much he charged? maybe they ripped you off thats all
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 10, 2019 13:33:16 GMT
Well to be honest I’ve never had a polish plumber. No tittering at the back! but generally Eastern Europeans seem more hard working and better at customer service than fat lazy Brits. However apprenticeships for locals are to be totally commended. As to sides of the story, how many sides can there be to a tap installed incorrectly on 2 counts, which falls off after 4 weeks? I just wondered who your letting agent employed and how much he charged? maybe they ripped you off thats all Yes hard to know how much goes to the actual plumber and how much goes to the property management company (that is in bed with the letting agent by way of it basically being the same company!). No doubt the PMC get a good chunk. But I wouldn't have minded the extortionate cost so much, if the job had actually been done adequately. I accepted the quote, after all.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 10, 2019 13:43:11 GMT
talking to friends who are still running businesses and not retired, labour is their biggest headache. Older workers who may not be as fit, are a bit slower moving around but often do more and better work in a day and are less likely to be found standing round looking dozy. Young lads taken on (that I have observed) need to be led by the hand to each new job otherwise they will happily stand and do nothing all day. Very few will look round to see what is needed next. There also seems to be a complete inability to use even basic hand tools .... Is no one taught how to use a handsaw, hammer or paintbrush ? Have we a new generation who have never helped their parents doing basic maintenance jobs ? You don't need to be a genius to know how to use a paint roller ..... you don't expect people to be an expert straight away but they should be able to slap paint on and get more on the object concerned than the surroundings and themselves. Appalling time keeping and almost bursting into tears when forced to leave their smart phone in the changing area. One friend calls it "estate mentality" Yes I certainly think it is a modern ill that younger folk don’t have a clue about anything practical, beyond poking their smartphones. It is all part of the decline and fall of human civilisation. Come the apocalypse (ie when internet/phones stop working), they will be doomed! Look at the fuss when the Three network went down for a day or two.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 10, 2019 13:43:17 GMT
Yes I certainly think it is a modern ill that younger folk don’t have a clue about anything practical, beyond poking their smartphones. I presume you’re talking from experience here in actually dealing with ‘younger folk’ ? Id be interested to hear What you base your assumption on. Having worked both a young lad and a young girl through a technical engineering apprenticeship, plus taking a keen interest in my own daughters current chemical engineering apprenticeship, I have to disagree with your assumption. your comment is a bit generalistic and just a tad patronising! Im sure both my ex apprentices would sit in awe hearing about your degree achieved in ‘tv valve technology’ or WTF 1960’s antiquated crap you spent all your early adult years sat on your arse freeloading studying! 😂😂 Generalising, obviously. When i was 12 i was building eletronic stuff, including mains powered stuff, taking the petrol lawnmover to bits etc. Your average 12 year old these days does nothing like that. Of course I am not blaming the kids, I am blaming the parents. My own niece and nephew in law (now 10 and 14) have never been allowed on the boat (too dangerous) have never been allowed in my glider or plane (wow, far too dangerous!) and I have never been allowed to pass on any life skills. Their own parents have no physical skills of that sort either, even though they are well educated (one a solicitor, one a nurse)
And no, during my electronics degree we didn't cover thermionic valves, or if we did, only in passing (it was the late 70s). You obviously don't understand what a proper engineering degree is like, it is not like going to technical college and playing with circuits. It is all theory, experiments, maths and more maths. Well apart from my final year project which was a microprocessor project - they were just coming in.
We have a couple of yoofs at the gliding club, both perfectly pleasant but a little lacking in life skills. And the Dunning-Kruger effect is very apparent.
Anyway it is not about being patronising, it is in my opinion a genuine concern that most younger people are unable to fix basic stuff. Technology has become just a bit too complicated for it to be grasped. Or at least it seems to be - in the good old days one would have to change contact breaker points, set the timing, clean out the carburettor. Now it is all about connecting a laptop to the car and finding out what is wrong, then replacing eg a duff sensor. In many ways it is easier than working on old stuff, once you are not afraid of it.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 10, 2019 13:46:31 GMT
talking to friends who are still running businesses and not retired, labour is their biggest headache. Older workers who may not be as fit, are a bit slower moving around but often do more and better work in a day and are less likely to be found standing round looking dozy. Young lads taken on (that I have observed) need to be led by the hand to each new job otherwise they will happily stand and do nothing all day. Very few will look round to see what is needed next. There also seems to be a complete inability to use even basic hand tools .... Is no one taught how to use a handsaw, hammer or paintbrush ? Have we a new generation who have never helped their parents doing basic maintenance jobs ? You don't need to be a genius to know how to use a paint roller ..... you don't expect people to be an expert straight away but they should be able to slap paint on and get more on the object concerned than the surroundings and themselves. Appalling time keeping and almost bursting into tears when forced to leave their smart phone in the changing area. One friend calls it "estate mentality" I dont know about estate mentallity. When i worked for crt a few years ago, i had one lad. Well lad he was 22, phone me the night before at nine o'clock to ask which bus he had to catch to get to work tommorrow. I politely pointed out i was a work collegue and i think he was mistaking me for his mother. Why couldn't you have just told him what bus it is? Not very helpful.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 10, 2019 13:49:02 GMT
I would bet the farm that the plumber was called "Piotr" or "Stanislav" or something similar. IMO Eastern European tradesmen are usually much better than Brits The chap who put in our new main switch and inverter switch last Spring seems to have done a very neat job of it, and was communicative in e-mails, and I believe from his name he was Eastern European.
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Post by bodger on Nov 10, 2019 13:53:31 GMT
I dont know about estate mentallity. When i worked for crt a few years ago, i had one lad. Well lad he was 22, phone me the night before at nine o'clock to ask which bus he had to catch to get to work tommorrow. I politely pointed out i was a work collegue and i think he was mistaking me for his mother. Why couldn't you have just told him what bus it is? Not very helpful. the Lord helps those who help themselves. unless they are disabled those who don't aren't worth employing.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 10, 2019 13:55:59 GMT
I presume you’re talking from experience here in actually dealing with ‘younger folk’ ? Id be interested to hear What you base your assumption on. Having worked both a young lad and a young girl through a technical engineering apprenticeship, plus taking a keen interest in my own daughters current chemical engineering apprenticeship, I have to disagree with your assumption. your comment is a bit generalistic and just a tad patronising! Im sure both my ex apprentices would sit in awe hearing about your degree achieved in ‘tv valve technology’ or WTF 1960’s antiquated crap you spent all your early adult years sat on your arse freeloading studying! 😂😂 Anyway it is not about being patronising, it is in my opinion a genuine concern that most younger people are unable to fix basic stuff. I find that kids in Finland simply "can't be bothered" in learning new things, or trying out something different. My dad's attitude was "there is always room for a new experience."
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 10, 2019 13:59:28 GMT
Why couldn't you have just told him what bus it is? Not very helpful. the Lord helps those who help themselves. unless they are disabled those who don't aren't worth employing. I think there's nothing wrong with being helpful and providing as much info as you can to help new people get started. If I have another driver coming to drive my bus I'll at least leave at note telling what time and what day the bus was fuelled, and if there are any faults with it. I understand people can arrive clueless; that I don't mind - what pisses me off is the "can't be bothered / it's too much trouble" attitude, then I think "Well, fuck off, then."
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Post by Gone on Nov 10, 2019 14:15:05 GMT
I dont know about estate mentallity. When i worked for crt a few years ago, i had one lad. Well lad he was 22, phone me the night before at nine o'clock to ask which bus he had to catch to get to work tommorrow. I politely pointed out i was a work collegue and i think he was mistaking me for his mother. Why couldn't you have just told him what bus it is? Not very helpful. Too be fair, I know that between me and a 22 year old, I know who will be quickest to go on-line, find the bus time table and then down load it.
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