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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 11:21:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 11:48:34 GMT
Sometimes things from the far east are great, and other times they are useless garbage. The only way to know is to try it. I expect one difference lies in the quality of the BMS system. You may have more luck with guarantee claims with the UK seller though, but since its someone selling them from a council flat I doubt it. Ask who indemnifies it.
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Post by peterboat on Sept 3, 2020 11:49:03 GMT
No idea mate, commercially they reckon that lithium batteries are now below the $100 per KWh, but for us mere mortals its much more, I have just paid 2.2k for 17.5KWh for lithium polymer batteries including all the interconnects. If I was you I would visit my mate James and buy one of his low cycles Valence batteries, its 138 ah and 1.6KWh I can get you a price it has a built in BMS which works. He is in London and is a boater the same as us
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 12:07:02 GMT
That sounds interesting. If you could get a price and send me his contact details I'd appreciate it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 12:10:09 GMT
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Post by kris on Sept 3, 2020 12:22:47 GMT
Yes, he’s who I bought my lithium’s from, I can only reinforce what peter has said he’s a nice chap and lives in London. So good for you to at least go and have a look.
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Post by peterboat on Sept 3, 2020 16:43:16 GMT
It is I can more than likely get you a better price though
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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 3, 2020 18:47:30 GMT
If I wasn't jacking in boating, I'd definitely look into getting lithiums. Solar panels, gas fridge, gas water heater, 17 watt tv, 4w lights with lithiums, small generator for an hour a day should cover things November to mid February, with no engine running otherwise. Good for the wallet, good for the environment, good for other boaters around you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 19:08:03 GMT
This boat already has a Paloma It also has a very nicely installed electrical system with 3 X 110ah SLA one for each engine one for domestics. I don't intend to disturb that system at all. The engines are for pushing the boat along, no hot water off them and not a great deal of charging either... Enough to cover requirements when cruising and top up the batteries a bit. The lithium system will be completely separate the closest they will come together will be that I can charge the other batteries using the lithiums as a "shore power" via an inverter on sunny days. I do have a 12v diesel driven very quiet charging generator which will push out up to 90a so the fact the lithiums are quick charging is rather useful. It needs the high pressure pump sorting as has been sitting around and also wants converting to dry exhaust and use the cooling system to warm a cabin radiator or matrix heater. It could be really good. If I actually do it...
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Post by JohnV on Sept 4, 2020 7:25:23 GMT
Yes, he’s who I bought my lithium’s from, I can only reinforce what peter has said he’s a nice chap and lives in London. So good for you to at least go and have a look. It's where mine came from as well (via peterboat )
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 18:36:27 GMT
Well going back to my original post it was quite simple in the end.
The orange packaged "power bank" has a very low charge and discharge C rating. The 100Ah battery block on the other hand has a high C rating for both charge and discharge.
So the packaged thing probably would be ok for lighting and small loads but once you want more than 10amps out of it it will let you down or shorten it's life.
That's the main difference from what I can see. Both are Chinese products.
And as @nemesis said the BMS story is quite complicated.
I might just invest in a Lifeline AGM battery instead...
Bit of a luddite in a way.
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Post by bodger on Sept 5, 2020 6:53:19 GMT
Well going back to my original post it was quite simple in the end. The orange packaged "power bank" has a very low charge and discharge C rating. The 100Ah battery block on the other hand has a high C rating for both charge and discharge. So the packaged thing probably would be ok for lighting and small loads but once you want more than 10amps out of it it will let you down or shorten it's life. That's the main difference from what I can see. Both are Chinese products. And as @nemesis said the BMS story is quite complicated. I might just invest in a Lifeline AGM battery instead... Bit of a luddite in a way. I have again reviewed the possibility of installing Lifepo4's in my little leccy boat, but like MM I am concerned about the reliability of the 'direct replacement' batteries that are described as having internal protection, balance and management.
there are now several brands of new batteries listed on ebay at around £400 per 100Ah (taking into account multiple discounts which would apply in my case). If the battery suffers from meltdown so would I 'cos the batteries are installed underneath my bed. A 2-year or 5-year warranty won't help my burned body very much.
I think I'll remain a Luddite for the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 15:22:08 GMT
This boat already has a Paloma It also has a very nicely installed electrical system with 3 X 110ah SLA one for each engine one for domestics. I don't intend to disturb that system at all. The engines are for pushing the boat along, no hot water off them and not a great deal of charging either... Enough to cover requirements when cruising and top up the batteries a bit. The lithium system will be completely separate the closest they will come together will be that I can charge the other batteries using the lithiums as a "shore power" via an inverter on sunny days. I do have a 12v diesel driven very quiet charging generator which will push out up to 90a so the fact the lithiums are quick charging is rather useful. It needs the high pressure pump sorting as has been sitting around and also wants converting to dry exhaust and use the cooling system to warm a cabin radiator or matrix heater. It could be really good. If I actually do it... Although you do more cruising than most bank squatters which makes the case for optimising what power you can get from the engines...uprated alternators and a battery-to-battery charger?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 15:33:04 GMT
This boat already has a Paloma It also has a very nicely installed electrical system with 3 X 110ah SLA one for each engine one for domestics. I don't intend to disturb that system at all. The engines are for pushing the boat along, no hot water off them and not a great deal of charging either... Enough to cover requirements when cruising and top up the batteries a bit. The lithium system will be completely separate the closest they will come together will be that I can charge the other batteries using the lithiums as a "shore power" via an inverter on sunny days. I do have a 12v diesel driven very quiet charging generator which will push out up to 90a so the fact the lithiums are quick charging is rather useful. It needs the high pressure pump sorting as has been sitting around and also wants converting to dry exhaust and use the cooling system to warm a cabin radiator or matrix heater. It could be really good. If I actually do it... Although you do more cruising than most bank squatters which makes the case for optimising what power you can get from the engines...uprated alternators and a battery-to-battery charger? That's a fair point yes. I do get through a fair bit of diesel and none of it is for when stationary. Other than waiting at locks. Perhaps it does need a rethink indeed. Upgrading the charging systems might be quite sensible after all. I was nervous about charging lithiums with the existing alternators because they are on single belts and same belt runs the water pumps. Then reading more about it it seems you use SLA as a buffer and a b2b as you say. Hmm. I seem to recall it's about 90a@12v for a single vee belt. I would not want to retrofit a dual pulley. Not sure but I guess the existing ALTs are 35a or 55a.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 15:51:06 GMT
I'm not an expert but on the basis that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and assuming a B2B charger which may have a output of 60A, my guess would be an alternator making 55A may not be enough.
Would there be any point doing it if the potential of such a setup was not optimised?
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