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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 18:26:43 GMT
I'm like "OMG has Clinton Cool even SEEN the loft tank up there yet?" I wonder if the seller of the property welshed on an the agreement to disclose all the issues.. Has it got a patio? (Terrace if you don't understand the word). If so have the bodies under it been declared as yet?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 18:27:23 GMT
OK it seems there is an RCD fitted, thinking about it that's not surprising as it was a holiday let. As Jim says what colour are the cables and are they pvc or rubber? Just checked, pvc, red and black. Red being positive I assume. Positive doesn't exist in an AC circuit.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 17, 2020 18:30:28 GMT
OK it seems there is an RCD fitted, thinking about it that's not surprising as it was a holiday let. As Jim says what colour are the cables and are they pvc or rubber? Just checked, pvc, red and black. Red being positive I assume. No, it’s ac so there is no positive or negative. There is live and neutral. Red would be live. These colours are now obsolete and only brown and blue is allowed for new wiring, but that only came in in 2007 so your wiring is not necessarily that old. But the old colours came in in 1977 so it could be that old!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 18:38:12 GMT
Just checked, pvc, red and black. Red being positive I assume. No, it’s ac so there is no positive or negative. There is live and neutral. Red would be live. These colours are now obsolete and only brown and blue is allowed for new wiring, but that only came in in 2007 so your wiring is not necessarily that old. But the old new colours came in in 1977 so it could be that old! Ricco is going to die...
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Post by JohnV on Nov 17, 2020 18:42:22 GMT
When I bought my house there was only one socket (10 amp round pin)downstairs the only socket upstairs was via a two way adaptor that plugged into the light socket, one light in each room (non in the scullery) the whole house ran on a 15 amp electricity board fuse. All the wiring was singles (double cotton covered) each wire running in it's own neat little notch cut into the joists about 2 inches away from it's matching pair. Amazingly it was all in perfect condition. Date of installation was unknown but at the same time they had disconnected the gas lighting, although they had left all the lead piping in situ for the wall brackets. In the sitting room you could still just make out where there had been a large plaster rose where some form of central drop gas light had been
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Post by Clinton Cool on Nov 17, 2020 18:49:28 GMT
Ok there are half a dozen switches each labelled, 'cooker', 'shower' etc. etc. None of these tripped. Then there's one at the end which isn't labelled but has a 'test' button on the side of it. This is the one that tripped. I was hoping that the clearly dodgy earth wire runs from the light unit where the fault occurred to the switch. Is this likely? I could test if this is the case by doing a continuity test with my multimeter. If so I could buy a length of earth wire and use the old wire to drag this through before connecting up. Access is very limited! Does this sound plausible? The better news is that the previously killer stove is now refurbished. New ropes around the doors and lower cover, missing and cracked fire cement upgraded with 1200 degree silicone. Smoke tested, all ok, just waiting a couple of days for it to dry properly before I start thinking about how to get a coal delivery up the hill. Ok so it sounds like an RCD or RCBO (combined RCD and overload breaker). Yes since you say the problem arose when you switched the light on, it’s likely that the fault lies between the switch and the light. And probably an earth leakage fault ie some degree (possibly fairly high resistance eg via corroded metal) of connection between live and earth. Replacing the wiring between switch and light is likely to fix it. But if that bit of wiring is that bad, what about the rest of the house? It says 'rcd Proteus' on the thing that tripped. Is that how it works then, an earth wire runs directly from the switch to the light unit? I should probably add that an extractor fan comes on with the light. I've also noticed that the bathroom light isn't a sealed unit, I think that's bad?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 19:04:55 GMT
When I bought my house there was only one socket (10 amp round pin)downstairs the only socket upstairs was via a two way adaptor that plugged into the light socket, one light in each room (non in the scullery) the whole house ran on a 15 amp electricity board fuse. All the wiring was singles (double cotton covered) each wire running in it's own neat little notch cut into the joists about 2 inches away from it's matching pair. Amazingly it was all in perfect condition. Date of installation was unknown but at the same time they had disconnected the gas lighting, although they had left all the lead piping in situ for the wall brackets. In the sitting room you could still just make out where there had been a large plaster rose where some form of central drop gas light had been The house we had when I was under ten years old was wired with all the old school gear. Early 80s. It was a massive house. 4 floors and over 20 different rooms. There were torpedo switches in each room which communicated with a display board in the servants quarters. Clever bit of kit it had a grid of around 20 mechanised balls which had black on one side and white on the other side. If you pressed the switch a bell would ring and the ball coinciding with the room would rotate to show white. So the servant would know where to go. We had no servants.. Another house we had previously, again with no servants, had a similar arrangement but a grid of red lamps instead of the rotating balls. I liked the rotating balls. Lots of mechanical things going on.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Nov 17, 2020 19:08:15 GMT
coal delivery up the hill CPL (coals2U or logs2U websites) offer delivery to your coal store. They are good about it. I buy 10kg bags of homefire from them for the barge and they bring it right down to beside the boat, which is not roadside. It is down hill though. I suppose they might have a hill clause. Not much chance of that. It's 350 yards from the nearest place a truck can get to. The first 75 yards are steeper than any road I've experienced. Current plan is to get them delivered to the kebab shop at the bottom of the hill, take the back box off my bike then ratchet strap one bag at a time to the box frame/ rear seat and ride them up the hill. Could do with a small trailer really.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 19:11:01 GMT
To be fair they do say up to £50 delivery value to the fireside. Other deliveries to the kerbside.
I guess I must be special.
Maybe drone delivery direct down the flue into the fire box would be worth looking at. Amazon might do this.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 19:11:09 GMT
I thought you were fit. Just run up the hill carrying one bag under each arm
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 17, 2020 20:55:35 GMT
Ok so it sounds like an RCD or RCBO (combined RCD and overload breaker). Yes since you say the problem arose when you switched the light on, it’s likely that the fault lies between the switch and the light. And probably an earth leakage fault ie some degree (possibly fairly high resistance eg via corroded metal) of connection between live and earth. Replacing the wiring between switch and light is likely to fix it. But if that bit of wiring is that bad, what about the rest of the house? It says 'rcd Proteus' on the thing that tripped. Is that how it works then, an earth wire runs directly from the switch to the light unit? I should probably add that an extractor fan comes on with the light. I've also noticed that the bathroom light isn't a sealed unit, I think that's bad? An RCD works by checking the the current in the live and neutral lines are exactly equal. If they are not, it means some current is leaking to earth via some means, eg through some contamination such as products of corrosion, damp, insects/spiders or some dozy human being touching the wrong bits.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 21:18:59 GMT
It says 'rcd Proteus' on the thing that tripped. Is that how it works then, an earth wire runs directly from the switch to the light unit? I should probably add that an extractor fan comes on with the light. I've also noticed that the bathroom light isn't a sealed unit, I think that's bad? An RCD works by checking the the current in the live and neutral lines are exactly equal. If they are not, it means some current is leaking to earth via some means, eg through some contamination such as products of corrosion, damp, insects/spiders or some dozy human being touching the wrong bits. There should be no wire connected from the RCD to earth, as Nick says it doesn't work that way. I assume it looks like this www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/1808017-63a-2-pole-30ma-type-a-rcd?
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Post by Clinton Cool on Nov 17, 2020 23:04:40 GMT
An RCD works by checking the the current in the live and neutral lines are exactly equal. If they are not, it means some current is leaking to earth via some means, eg through some contamination such as products of corrosion, damp, insects/spiders or some dozy human being touching the wrong bits. There should be no wire connected from the RCD to earth, as Nick says it doesn't work that way. I assume it looks like this www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/1808017-63a-2-pole-30ma-type-a-rcd?Yes that's the one, exactly.
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Post by bodger on Nov 18, 2020 8:09:51 GMT
When I bought my house there was only one socket (10 amp round pin)downstairs the only socket upstairs was via a two way adaptor that plugged into the light socket, one light in each room (non in the scullery) the whole house ran on a 15 amp electricity board fuse. All the wiring was singles (double cotton covered) each wire running in it's own neat little notch cut into the joists about 2 inches away from it's matching pair. Amazingly it was all in perfect condition. Date of installation was unknown but at the same time they had disconnected the gas lighting, although they had left all the lead piping in situ for the wall brackets. In the sitting room you could still just make out where there had been a large plaster rose where some form of central drop gas light had been but to be fair, it was the house you bought when you left home at the age of 21 - and it may also be worth noting that you received a telegram from King George VI on your centennial.
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Post by JohnV on Nov 18, 2020 8:40:24 GMT
When I bought my house there was only one socket (10 amp round pin)downstairs the only socket upstairs was via a two way adaptor that plugged into the light socket, one light in each room (non in the scullery) the whole house ran on a 15 amp electricity board fuse. All the wiring was singles (double cotton covered) each wire running in it's own neat little notch cut into the joists about 2 inches away from it's matching pair. Amazingly it was all in perfect condition. Date of installation was unknown but at the same time they had disconnected the gas lighting, although they had left all the lead piping in situ for the wall brackets. In the sitting room you could still just make out where there had been a large plaster rose where some form of central drop gas light had been but to be fair, it was the house you bought when you left home at the age of 21 - and it may also be worth noting that you received a telegram from King George VI on your centennial. It was just as it had been when built (during the Victorian expansion of London) The elderly lady who lived in it had kept it unchanged apart from the influence of an interfering relative who had made her get rid of the range in the living room and replace it with a god awful 1960's tiled fireplace and gas fire. (and I bought it in the 80's)
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