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Post by Bad-Bitch on Oct 26, 2016 20:05:05 GMT
Haha! Two can play at THAT game. Check my new signature
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Post by mayalld on Oct 27, 2016 9:21:58 GMT
I fluctuate over any recognition that this might be the case. While the stupidity of an action is no reliable indication that it could not have been instigated by either CaRT or Shoosmiths, it does need pointing out just how stupid it would have been, had either or both pressured for the shut-down. As I commented in one of the relevant threads – having a direct conduit into the thinking and argument and plans of an opponent is a priceless asset; closing down that conduit shuts them off – not only from the fly-on-the-wall insights, but – from the counter-arguments volunteered by CaRT supporters, and by those with no part in the game other than an interest in offering challenge for its own sake. I shall sorely miss the contributions of mayalld in particular, because he has been able to come up with far better arguments against my own positions than Mr Stoner QC has managed – and having the opportunity to run tactics and argument past such enthusiastic scrutineers is of itself invaluable – as Mike Todd accurately observed in the ‘sheep’ thread. I think you have hit the nail on the head why cart/shoosmiths would want to close the discussion down. Because it is of assistance to you, they tried to remove you through the court. That failed now they have gone the other route of applying pressure on Dan. Taking into account assistance you have received plus the garnering of public support and the bad publicity they have received, it makes perfect sense to me. But then I am an advocate of reading "the art of war" by sun tzu. If Dave mayal has been so helpful to you, why not pm him with an invitation to join a thread on here. Explaining why you find responding with him so useful and that you feel open discussion is no longer possible on cwdf. I think he wouldn't be able to resist. Remember he wouldn't have to post here under his real name. Please carry on the good work Nigel there are a lot of boaters who owe you a debt of gratitude, if they realise it or not.
Neither would I have to post under any assumed name!
Given the developments on CWDF whilst I was sunning myself in the Med, I have a reduced confidence that it can survive, and whether it will survive in a form that I will continue to want to be a part of.
That leaves me in an "interesting" position.
The trouble is that any forum is always going to be something of a compromise that won't suit everybody, in terms of rules, and enforcement of the rules.
CWDF was, at one time, the nearest to what I think a forum SHOULD be (and I suppose that what I want reflects the fact that it is around 20 years since my first posts in uk.rec.waterways which the rose tinted glasses identify as a good time).
My ideal forum has;
* No, or minimal, authoritative moderation. * An expectation that as adults, we are able to understand what the "rules" are, and self police. * A community consensus as to unacceptable behaviour, backed up by community disapprobation of non-compliance. * An ethos that it is OK to say "your idea is crap", but not "you are crap" * A lack of fluffy bunnies insisting that we must be "nice" to people asking questions that they could find discussed last week using google.
CWDF isn't that, but I'm afraid this place isn't either. You've nailed kicking out the headmaster, well done! However, in its place is something totally anarchic, where there is a lack of self control and no community consensus built up to say that just because we CAN say certain things without the moderators telling us off, it doesn't mean we SHOULD.
So, there you have it.
I won't be quitting CWDF (although Dan may well kick me out for things I say here eventually) as I retain some hope that it can be saved if those who are destroying it hand back the keys to the black helicopter, but I may well start to contribute a little here.
In doing so, I won't be availing myself of the freedom to behave in unacceptable ways. I fully intend to self-police. Clearly, that could put me at a disadvantage in discussions with those who think nothing of heaping abuse and vitriol on their opponents, but I'm sure I will cope.
If all else fails, I could end up back on uk.rec.waterways (last posted there about 7 years ago!)
Dave
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 9:30:29 GMT
As is often the case, an excellent post.
I remain pleasantly surprise at seeing the members here.
Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 27, 2016 9:36:17 GMT
I think you have hit the nail on the head why cart/shoosmiths would want to close the discussion down. Because it is of assistance to you, they tried to remove you through the court. That failed now they have gone the other route of applying pressure on Dan. Taking into account assistance you have received plus the garnering of public support and the bad publicity they have received, it makes perfect sense to me. But then I am an advocate of reading "the art of war" by sun tzu. If Dave mayal has been so helpful to you, why not pm him with an invitation to join a thread on here. Explaining why you find responding with him so useful and that you feel open discussion is no longer possible on cwdf. I think he wouldn't be able to resist. Remember he wouldn't have to post here under his real name. Please carry on the good work Nigel there are a lot of boaters who owe you a debt of gratitude, if they realise it or not.
Neither would I have to post under any assumed name!
Given the developments on CWDF whilst I was sunning myself in the Med, I have a reduced confidence that it can survive, and whether it will survive in a form that I will continue to want to be a part of.
That leaves me in an "interesting" position.
The trouble is that any forum is always going to be something of a compromise that won't suit everybody, in terms of rules, and enforcement of the rules.
CWDF was, at one time, the nearest to what I think a forum SHOULD be (and I suppose that what I want reflects the fact that it is around 20 years since my first posts in uk.rec.waterways which the rose tinted glasses identify as a good time).
My ideal forum has;
* No, or minimal, authoritative moderation. * An expectation that as adults, we are able to understand what the "rules" are, and self police. * A community consensus as to unacceptable behaviour, backed up by community disapprobation of non-compliance. * An ethos that it is OK to say "your idea is crap", but not "you are crap" * A lack of fluffy bunnies insisting that we must be "nice" to people asking questions that they could find discussed last week using google.
CWDF isn't that, but I'm afraid this place isn't either. You've nailed kicking out the headmaster, well done! However, in its place is something totally anarchic, where there is a lack of self control and no community consensus built up to say that just because we CAN say certain things without the moderators telling us off, it doesn't mean we SHOULD.
So, there you have it.
I won't be quitting CWDF (although Dan may well kick me out for things I say here eventually) as I retain some hope that it can be saved if those who are destroying it hand back the keys to the black helicopter, but I may well start to contribute a little here.
In doing so, I won't be availing myself of the freedom to behave in unacceptable ways. I fully intend to self-police. Clearly, that could put me at a disadvantage in discussions with those who think nothing of heaping abuse and vitriol on their opponents, but I'm sure I will cope.
If all else fails, I could end up back on uk.rec.waterways (last posted there about 7 years ago!)
Dave
Welcome! Even though I find your argumentative style annoying at times, I am delighted to see you on here. Must be the masochist in me! I've just been banned from CWDF for being disruptive, so perhaps there is going to be another mass cull leaving only the fluffy bunnies in D Hutch (hey, just thought of that one!).
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Post by kris on Oct 27, 2016 9:38:28 GMT
Nice to see you here Dave. I think any forum has a certain amount of "shelf life." In lots of people's opinion cwdf has died a death. But some people keep trying to resurrect it. In fairness to thunderboat it is fairly new and finding its feet, the anarchic feel is deliberate. People seem to enjoy being able to say what they feel, after the stifling atmosphere recently prevalent on cwd. I look forward to your discussions with Nigel, as I have enjoyed reading them on the other channel.
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Post by kris on Oct 27, 2016 9:41:37 GMT
Your ban was kind of inevitable Nick. Admit it there's part of you that's delighted to be one of the desperadoes. So you'll never get away from this dung heap now.
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Post by bettina on Oct 27, 2016 9:43:10 GMT
Hi Dave and welcome to Thunderboat.
It's very nice to see you here, although I don't think I ever actually joined in any of the legal discussion of pending or case results between yourself and Nigel; I did enjoy reading them & found them to be most informative & interesting.
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 27, 2016 9:52:05 GMT
Your ban was kind of inevitable Nick. Admit it there's part of you that's delighted to be one of the desperadoes. So you'll never get away from this dung heap now. There is some truth in what you say!
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Post by canaldweller on Oct 27, 2016 10:06:08 GMT
I think you have hit the nail on the head why cart/shoosmiths would want to close the discussion down. Because it is of assistance to you, they tried to remove you through the court. That failed now they have gone the other route of applying pressure on Dan. Taking into account assistance you have received plus the garnering of public support and the bad publicity they have received, it makes perfect sense to me. But then I am an advocate of reading "the art of war" by sun tzu. If Dave mayal has been so helpful to you, why not pm him with an invitation to join a thread on here. Explaining why you find responding with him so useful and that you feel open discussion is no longer possible on cwdf. I think he wouldn't be able to resist. Remember he wouldn't have to post here under his real name. Please carry on the good work Nigel there are a lot of boaters who owe you a debt of gratitude, if they realise it or not.
Neither would I have to post under any assumed name!
Given the developments on CWDF whilst I was sunning myself in the Med, I have a reduced confidence that it can survive, and whether it will survive in a form that I will continue to want to be a part of.
That leaves me in an "interesting" position.
The trouble is that any forum is always going to be something of a compromise that won't suit everybody, in terms of rules, and enforcement of the rules.
CWDF was, at one time, the nearest to what I think a forum SHOULD be (and I suppose that what I want reflects the fact that it is around 20 years since my first posts in uk.rec.waterways which the rose tinted glasses identify as a good time).
My ideal forum has;
* No, or minimal, authoritative moderation. * An expectation that as adults, we are able to understand what the "rules" are, and self police. * A community consensus as to unacceptable behaviour, backed up by community disapprobation of non-compliance. * An ethos that it is OK to say "your idea is crap", but not "you are crap" * A lack of fluffy bunnies insisting that we must be "nice" to people asking questions that they could find discussed last week using google.
CWDF isn't that, but I'm afraid this place isn't either. You've nailed kicking out the headmaster, well done! However, in its place is something totally anarchic, where there is a lack of self control and no community consensus built up to say that just because we CAN say certain things without the moderators telling us off, it doesn't mean we SHOULD.
So, there you have it.
I won't be quitting CWDF (although Dan may well kick me out for things I say here eventually) as I retain some hope that it can be saved if those who are destroying it hand back the keys to the black helicopter, but I may well start to contribute a little here.
In doing so, I won't be availing myself of the freedom to behave in unacceptable ways. I fully intend to self-police. Clearly, that could put me at a disadvantage in discussions with those who think nothing of heaping abuse and vitriol on their opponents, but I'm sure I will cope.
If all else fails, I could end up back on uk.rec.waterways (last posted there about 7 years ago!)
Dave
Hya Mayalld and welcome to Thunderboat. This forum was started for boat minded people who wanted to discuss politics. From there it has become a refuge for the damned, the disillusioned and the dispossessed. It is now, slowly, getting to what you want from a forum. Self moderation is begining to establish itself. So I think you can remove the "totally " from your suggestion that it is "totally anarchic ". I hope you will stick around to watch Thunderboat grow into the No.1 waterways site.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 11:22:28 GMT
This has just been posted on cwdf. (That told him then)
Posted Today, 11:11 AM
"You've lost all sense of reality Daniel, you're still pronouncing "what shall be" in the face of all the interesting characters, knowlegable experts and those with any sense of self worth leaving in droves.
Your petty rules are insulting, your "do as you're told" attitude is, I'm afraid to say, the source of hilarity amongst anyone with their own brain.
Carry on though, the rules even before it all went tits up only served those with the greatest vocabulary and will power, enabling only them to circumvent your silly rules to be rude and insulting.
Your only hope is to abandon all your ridiculous rules, go away and don't look for a year. I won't hold my breath, I don't need to: Thunderboat is where all the characters are. Posters at the forefront of legal dispute, experts in all fields are signing up in droves. It's an equitable and pleasant place to communicate where one's peers keep order. Compare to this dull grey place with it's power mad owner and thought police style overseers? This place will shrivel and die and good job too. When the busiest site only allows a chosen section of the community it serves to participate it's on a hiding to nothing. I could wish you luck, but I wouldn't mean it."
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 27, 2016 11:27:20 GMT
Who posted that? (Seems to have gone already!)
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Post by tonyqj on Oct 27, 2016 11:31:08 GMT
Who posted that? (Seems to have gone already!) Boathunter. It's in the Suggestions section.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 11:32:26 GMT
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 27, 2016 11:36:24 GMT
Who posted that? (Seems to have gone already!) Boathunter. It's in the Suggestions section. Thanks. As a non-logged in guest it seems that section is hidden. Is it still there? Probably not, LM and WF are on patrol.
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Post by lollygagger on Oct 27, 2016 11:39:48 GMT
Who posted that? (Seems to have gone already!) Oops, that was me, no longer hunting boats (I found one) I changed my name.
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