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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 12:39:28 GMT
I suspect andrew will fix the problem when it becomes a problem... Some of us are just that way. Yep, its his boat. I'd call an engine that fails to start on cue a problem. But that's just me I guess. As you know Martin it was mainly the battery and the cold weather. The problem isn't serious enough to warrant paying someone because if I wanted to I could fix it myself. It's mainly a cold weather problem and being on the Thames I tend to do less boating in winter due to conditions anyway. Once it's running it's perfectly okay. I've done two of the heater plugs but the other two mean full disassembly of the fuel system between the hp pump and the injectors. CBA at the moment. I suppose it will result in overuse of the starter motor so you are right in a way to get it sorted out but the way I use the boat it's not a priority.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 13:39:33 GMT
If you had lots of spare power you could run filtering pumps several hours a day, but otherwise I think it would get a bit expensive to create the extra power needed. The idea is to use as little power as possible. I am hoping that all I will need is a small 12v transfer pump to route the filtered water to the reserve water tank. As this is going to be strictly not for drinking I reckon I can get away with a fairly basic system with a UV lamp (yes I know not amazing but probably does something) and chlorine dosing followed by removal of chlorine at point of use. It works in my head anyway ! So a little 4lpm pump probably around 1 amp and the UV lamp 1 amp. So 1 + 1 is 2a while it's working. That would be producing (in theory) 3 or 4 LPM which will be quite a lot of water actually. This all depends on the effectiveness of the sedimentation tank really as that will be saving the element filters from getting blocked up. All experimental at this stage and I am aware that the amount of suspended solids may be considerably higher than expected specially in winter on the Thames...
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Post by JohnV on May 8, 2021 18:09:27 GMT
I was looking at reverse osmosis systems (again another large consumer of power) but when you come down to it I doubt you would need "several hours a day" as they produce 20 or 30 gallons per hour
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 18:59:19 GMT
For my transatlantic trip plan I was looking at the dinky little Katadyn 40E watermaker. Not such a dinky price at £3500 but getting drinking water out of sea water was always going to be a problem.
I also wonder if the input water is a factor and whether the manufacturers have a little clause about the thing needing clear water.
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Post by JohnV on May 8, 2021 20:01:31 GMT
you need to have decent filtering to protect the membrane
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Post by phil70 on May 9, 2021 7:12:31 GMT
Fascinating thread, my mate Paul aka Nulife4-2 lived aboard a fat Sea Otter at sea and used a water maker. When he fell out of love with boating he bought a land yacht and toured all over the British Isles and also the Continent and made all his water using the system removed from his boat. He sourced his water from roof drainage and failing that he used any convenient water that he came across be it pond, ditch or river. Paul survived many years and still does using raw water as his source to filter to make Adams Ale. Phil
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2021 7:51:48 GMT
I remember Paul NL42 from canalworld and I think he was on here as well for a bit.
I remember him mentioning the watermaker and it came up in Google searches pointing to canalworld as well.
It seems a good way to do it on a boat even if not technically essential. Just feels like the right thing really.
And this boat was definitely set up to do it so taking the system out of mothballs seems to be a good vibe.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 8:25:52 GMT
Going back to the JohnV water problem for a moment. I think what you need is a flocculation tank John. A tank with some sort of stirrer in it and you add alum. This apparently consolidates the particles and allows them to settle out quickly. A diaphragm pump of some sort for sludge removal. Never tried any of this but I wonder if a series of barrels / beer kegs on deck could be used to clarify the water bit by bit. Initial settling tank, flocculation tank, sand filter, sand and charcoal filter then onwards to the element type filters. A mini version of a waterworks treatment plant. Could be a nice project for Sabina. Interesting to see how manageable it is. The theory works but in real life there is a heck of a lot of suspended muck in the water... I think it could even be made to be gravity fed with the initial settling tank arranged with a float switch and pump to lift water out of the river.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 9:00:04 GMT
Assuming you successfully create a water filtration system for washing purposes, what will you use the end-product for?
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 9:02:26 GMT
Aerial crop spraying
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 9:05:44 GMT
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Post by JohnV on May 11, 2021 6:49:51 GMT
Assuming you successfully create a water filtration system for washing purposes, what will you use the end-product for? Well filtered water which is then passed through a reverse osmosis filter, is drinking water ....... it's purity will far exceed that of most municiple water systems, (including CRT water taps ) In fact the output is so pure they often add some impurities to it to make it more palatable for drinking
Reverse osmosis removes impurities like metals, chemicals like chlorine, nitrates, sulphates, bacteria, viruses, in fact anything with a molecular structure much larger than 0.001 micron. because of this the filter produces as "waste" more water than it actually passes as "clean" and also requires "flushing" regularly.
(the very smallest viruses are many times larger than this)
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Post by peterboat on May 11, 2021 7:45:12 GMT
This is all terribly fascinating but if it were me I'd fix the engine before getting too concerned about long-range expedition water supplies. Don't worry about the engine it's fine. Just needs fiddling with as you saw plus I need a bigger hattery for it. Anyway this is for short range water supplies. Long range ie anywhere down River would require a desalinator I believe. That's a different thing altogether. ETA pair of BMC 1.5s. port engine as new starboard engine slightl starting problem probably to do with heater plugs. Once running no problems. I don't want to get someone in to break it for me. I bought 4 heater plugs for the bathtub from ebay very cheap and quick started after a couple of seconds when fittered
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Post by peterboat on May 11, 2021 7:53:35 GMT
Assuming you successfully create a water filtration system for washing purposes, what will you use the end-product for? Well filtered water which is then passed through a reverse osmosis filter, is drinking water ....... it's purity will far exceed that of most municiple water systems, (including CRT water taps ) In fact the output is so pure they often add some impurities to it to make it more palatable for drinking
Reverse osmosis removes impurities like metals, chemicals like chlorine, nitrates, sulphates, bacteria, viruses, in fact anything with a molecular structure much larger than 0.001 micron. because of this the filter produces as "waste" more water than it actually passes as "clean" and also requires "flushing" regularly.
(the very smallest viruses are many times larger than this)
Battery James collects water from the roof for drinking, he has a pre filter system then a proper filtration system onboard, it means he only visits waterpoints a couple of times a year to fill up. This boat had a river water filtration system as well, it was removed by the previous owner before the finance company took the boat of him, it was mounted in the well at the bow and was an expensive piece of kit allegedly
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 9:06:34 GMT
Anyway I decided to get one of these filter manifolds: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2320244430983 stage 10" filters with transparent housings. Pond filters. Handy hozelock type quick release fittings on the ends. £50 with cartridges so not too bad. So what I will do is bring water from that settling tank into a beer keg sand filter then run it into these filters and see what happens. After that I will dump it in another beer keg into which I will put some bleach or peroxide. Then onwards to a single filter to dechlorinate. No idea if this will work but it's quite an interesting thing to play with. River water is actually quite clear at the moment being average fluvial flow. Winter will be different I do realise that. This will be a completely separate system to the 3 pump 5 tank arrangement currently on the boat. I'm also eyeing up the option of fitting a small 12v immersion heater to the final beer keg and use it as a little hot tank run from excess solar power and perhaps a collector plate. Got to be tried out anyway. I think if the water could be sterilised then having a small amount of grit in it might actually be quite good for washing. Extra abrasives could be a welcome addition. Maybe the filters are a red herring.
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