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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 15:49:01 GMT
I guess two 25kg sacks of pool filter sand might be the thing for initial experimenting. With a cloth underneath then some gravel.
I find it an interesting thing to play with.
Also need to make a rubber gasket and fit socket button machine screws to the lid so it can be zipped on and off with electric drill driver. The seal on there at the moment is Hessian and tar of some sort so a bit gooey. I'll do rubber gasket for it that would be better for something which gets opened and closed regularly which may be needed for replacing filter media.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 20:58:51 GMT
I spake with the neighbour at the ranch who has been doing things with sand filters and he said pool filter media and there is a pool products shop nearby in High Wycombe.
So that's what I'll do. Probably about 50kg of the stuff and a packet of gravel.
I mentioned to him my penchant for drinking Thames water filtered down to 5 microns and he seemed a little intrigued. He's more of a Reverse Osmosis polished water type of guy where they divide microns into fractions.
To be fair while I had the kids on the boat they were instructed to use the clean water tap for washing and drinking as I think they are a bit young to die horribly from cryptospiridium or coliforms.
And the chlorine bomb tablets make it taste a bit swimming pool like.
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Post by thebfg on Jun 6, 2021 1:12:29 GMT
I spake with the neighbour at the ranch who has been doing things with sand filters and he said pool filter media and there is a pool products shop nearby in High Wycombe. So that's what I'll do. Probably about 50kg of the stuff and a packet of gravel. I mentioned to him my penchant for drinking Thames water filtered down to 5 microns and he seemed a little intrigued. He's more of a Reverse Osmosis polished water type of guy where they divide microns into fractions. To be fair while I had the kids on the boat they were instructed to use the clean water tap for washing and drinking as I think they are a bit young to die horribly from cryptospiridium or coliforms. And the chlorine bomb tablets make it taste a bit swimming pool like. I told you that a week ago.🙂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 20:00:56 GMT
I had a chat with the geyser on the other boat earlier on and on the subject of the 5 microns filter he pointed to the dead lambs in the River. We get quite a lot of them here. "does it filter out their bacteria?" And "what about the heavy metals?" I just told him "I love a bit of that" and he worked it out. Clever bloke and he has a really attractive girlfriend who has been making eyes at me since she saw my children.
Oh well I guess I will have to carry on drinking 5 microns Thames water !
And hope for the best.
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Post by JohnV on Jun 6, 2021 21:21:31 GMT
I had a chat with the geyser on the other boat earlier on and on the subject of the 5 microns filter he pointed to the dead lambs in the River. We get quite a lot of them here. "does it filter out their bacteria?" And "what about the heavy metals?" I just told him "I love a bit of that" and he worked it out. Clever bloke and he has a really attractive girlfriend who has been making eyes at me since she saw my children. Oh well I guess I will have to carry on drinking 5 microns Thames water ! And hope for the best. UV !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 21:22:55 GMT
I do have a UV lamp in the circuit yes.
And chlorine tablets (aquatabs).
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Post by JohnV on Jun 7, 2021 5:41:03 GMT
that'll take care of microbes Andrew ...... it's only the heavy metals left to worry about ....... if you consume too much of them you will need to buy a lifejacket with a much higher buoyancy capability
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 18:06:39 GMT
Anyway
I am now convinced it is in fact a settling tank. Nothing to do with sand or anything else just a good old fashioned settling tank.
Provided one uses a sensible detention time for the water (24h seems useful) the solids do actually drop out and it doesn't block up the filters like it did when water was not given time to settle.
It is actually very effective and efficient as a solids filter. Gravity is a wonderful thing after all. I can see all the sand and grit on the bottom of the tank and there is a fitting angled down right to the bottom with a hose on it for pumping out the sludge.
Anode on a length of studding welded to the lid is a giveaway too it's meant to be full of water not sand !
So on a boat like this which is low water consumption even if using the shower I reckon a daily fill of the tank followed by 24hr settling time then shift water to the fresh water tanks via the UV lamp is the way to go.
It makes a lot of sense really.
It could be used as a sand filter if required. Maybe beach sand for when doing the trips around the med. Or dredged sand but for Bucks on Thames with boat not rocking around violently it seems that settling is the way to go.
The pump shifted the water to the tanks much better after settling and filter just wasn't blocking up much at all!
Total transformation compared with pumping immediately after filling tank.
Obviously.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 18:14:52 GMT
I had initially thought it was necessary to skim water from further up but of course if the tank is static and full of water all the solids will drop to the bottom. Or they will remain suspended. None of them will be "sort of part of the way up" so the outlet being only a couple of inches above the bottom of the tank isn't a problem.
If it was a continuous flow type then I think the outlet would have to be higher but it isn't so it doesn't.
And anyway there is filtration after the tank it's just for getting the heavy stuff out.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 19:29:47 GMT
I'm also going to try the alum dosing coagulation/flocculation method as I think it could be interesting.
1 gram per litre seems to be the thing so using my incredibly powerful slide rule that would be 1kg per tonne of water.
Alum is about £6.50 per kilo so it's not too bad really. Not free but also not all that expensive.
It is claimed that flocculation removes (by gravity) more solids than basic sedimentation even including some of the bacteria and I think the alum might offset the the filter costs. The 50, 20 and 5 micron filters are £1 each if you buy 50 at time so it is a noticeable cost associated with the production of "clean enough water to wash yourself in".
It's all interesting (to me) as it seems slightly ridiculous to be surrounded by water yet rely on land based installations to fill the tanks.
What is worrying me quite a lot at this stage and prompting some anxiety therapy is that I have actually been having showers.
This a departure from the standardised norm and I know from bitter experience that this can cause significant issues.
Hopefully the increase in washing and "personal hygiene" will just be a brief experimental stage.
Time will tell.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 9:13:23 GMT
It seems to be quite a good arrangement.
Down to 5 microns UV and chlorine for the large tanks then pump through a RO system which is a 3 way unit using an 80psi RO pump to produce polished water.
I don't really mind cooking with the 5 microns water but it's probably sensible to use the RO water on balance.
It's very slow but it does produce some water. Probably about 1 litre in 5 minutes. That's fine for cooking purposes. As far as I can see it's about 4:1 so 4 litres waste to 1 litre clean water.
That settling tank and filter setup means I can easily do 100 litres every 24h so there will be enough water available.
It will be interesting to see what it's like after rain with more silt in the water.
This is what is usually a problem obviously but I think that settling tank might sort it.
The 4th and 5th tank under the cabin sole I think I'll probably store normal tap water in those. Currently empty and not really required they are large backup tanks valved to one of the water pumps to a dedicated faucet.
They do want clean water in those tanks not River water.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 12:25:03 GMT
What I really fancy doing is getting a foot length of perspex tube and run the 5 microns water through that. If I fit bulkhead connectors top and bottom and a vent I reckon I can transfer the water via that with a bit of air in it. This will give an indication of flow rate and it's interesting to see if the inside of the perspex gets dirty from the 5 micron water.
End caps sikaflexed onto the pipe should be ok with bulkhead fittings for the 1/4 pipe. And a vent screw obviously. The transfer pump through the filters is just a 30psi shurflo so not a lot of pressure to blow the ends off.
Nice little viewing system would be really good!
75mm perspex would be the thing. Could do same thing with a bottle but they are not rigid enough really.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 13:08:12 GMT
Haven't got a TDS meter yet but the geyser with the attractive girlfriend reckons that he got the water down to a TDS of 7 from around 250 via the RO system.
Quite impressive but RO water is dodgy in the sense there are no minerals.
Not ideal to be drinking it all the time.
You can get mineralising cartridges for that.
I think it would be interesting to put a can of beer through the system and see if it gets clean water out. It probably would be a waste but an interesting experiment anyway.
Also a little bit intrigued to know if the £45 RO systems do salt water. I think not but it's possible .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 8:31:08 GMT
Just noticed they do a 3 stage for £35 ! This is more or less the same as the one I am using. It does seem to produce very clean water from the 5 micron River water. Quite impressed actually that it is so successful. I did buy a £40 80psi booster pump for it as well. Cheap 3 stage RO www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332170226776For cooking and tea making water. I'm pretty sure I have worked out the right way to do it in the sense you have bulk supply of reasonably clean treated water from which to draw and produce clean water. So you need at least 3 seperate tanks as you also want a supply of basic clean tap water available. And I suppose ideally 3 separate pumps. At £35 its more or less and bin and replace item rather than individual filters. A bit wrong to bin so much plastic but there we arrr such is life if it lasts 3 months then twelve pound a month I spend more than that on beer !! It might last longer I have no idea. Or shorter. For small volumes it's a very nice little unit easy to mount easy to plumb in and so far it does seem to work. I reckon about 4 litres per hour but I am running the 24v boost pump on 12v. Haven't timed it anyway but it does eventually fill a 5 litre plastic bottle. Rated at 50 gallons per day so that would be around 10 litres per hour so that seems about right running at half voltage . I Could be getting less but anyway if it's cooking and tea then a few hours of that provides enough water. Getting a TDS total dissolved solids meter in post next week that should be interesting. Intrigued to see River, the settling tank after 24hrs, the 5 micron water and the RO wate compared. All good fun.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 8:12:23 GMT
Anyway The 5 micron water in the tanks has a TDS of just over 300 After the little RO unit it has a TDS of 14!! That's seriously effective then. I wonder if this will in fact do salty water... At £35 for the 3 stage unit and £40 for the pump it's not really that expensive. Not sure how much water it will produce before needing replacement but especially for cooking purposes it does seem interesting. Apparently these little TDS meters are accurate. TDS isn't everything but it's still interesting. It turns out the river water is (obviously) very hard so I suppose there might be problems with that but apparently the locally supplied tap water is also very hard and I have been using that anyway. Probably be ok.
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