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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 9:29:56 GMT
It seems a bit pointless when Tony Dunkley constantly bangs on about what happened when working boats used the canals, because with very few exceptions they don't any more. In fact when I'm at work I am the closest modern equivalent to an 1800s boatman, the primary difference being that whereas CanalPlanAC schedules a journey from where I am to my home mooring as 46 hours and 29 minutes, the AA Route Planner has it as a journey of 1 hour 21 minutes by car, so add 30% to that to allow for the slower speed of an articulated lorry and we're still at under two hours to move the same tonnage of goods over the same distance. So basically for the canals to survive in any form, it's "Noddy Boaters" or nothing at all. I suspect Dunkley would prefer the latter. Real canals of course can carry a lot more hundreds of tons in fact, so maybe we should make all the narrow canals into big canals to move freight around? It's certainly true that a horse can tow a loaded boat more easily than a loaded trailer and given the current state of global events it probably won't be too long before it all starts to look like the most viable option. Convert the entire system to wide gauge? I've never thought of you as a fan of the funny fags.
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Post by ianali on Jul 4, 2022 9:42:45 GMT
Yes, I've been told the same ... and I understand that there's much bigger issues than grass around locks. But I wondered if the towpath side cutting was an error by a new contractor or a new policy. The reality of today's boating is that lock working is done by oldies (like Jane and I) or kids, not fully fit working men. Rog Hmmm..there are still a few of us middle age fit guys boating!
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Post by ianali on Jul 4, 2022 9:43:39 GMT
Obviously so. I wondered if Police advice had been for you to stay away from your 'attacker' hence your absence ? Rog Police did not give any such advice, the question is more around whether I want to be in the “virtual company” of bigots and liars, and those who condone such behaviours. None taken!
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Jul 4, 2022 11:58:35 GMT
The reality of today's boating is that lock working is done by oldies (like Jane and I) or kids, not fully fit working men. and earlier he also said :That's kind of the point ... nowadays the system is for pleasure boats stuffed full of worldly possessions, not full of coal or grain. Nowadays it's families working the locks not working boaters. In today's boating world cutting the grass around locks, swing bridges, water points etc. does make that environment safer by minimising slip and trip hazards. Rog The "reality of today's (pleasure) boating" is that, with rare exceptions, those now pursuing it as a hobby make boating and lock working a lot more hazardous, and harder work, than it need be by not following the methods and practices that working boat people developed and refined over many generations to make their day to day lives easier and safer, and their work quicker and more efficient. The "reality" is that the contents of the boats and the age and fitness of the crews has no bearing whatsoever on best practice for working locks and every other aspect of canal and river boating. The "reality" is that you appear to be far too bloody-minded and stupid to think about or even attempt to understand anything that doesn't fit in with your hopelessly misguided preconceptions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 12:13:33 GMT
Ah I see. And obviously you decided you do. Rog Still thinking about it. It doesn't have to be a binary decision. 'I will survive' either way I'm sure Rog
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 12:17:01 GMT
Yes, I've been told the same ... and I understand that there's much bigger issues than grass around locks. But I wondered if the towpath side cutting was an error by a new contractor or a new policy. The reality of today's boating is that lock working is done by oldies (like Jane and I) or kids, not fully fit working men. Rog Hmmm..there are still a few of us middle age fit guys boating! Of course ... how could I forget ... my apologies (middle aged 😁) Rog
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Jul 4, 2022 18:11:54 GMT
The safer alternative - especially in wet or frosty weather - to stepping or jumping across the gap to the other side bottom gate on a single lock with two bottom gates is, or rather was, to carry what was known as a "cabin shaft" and use that to open or close the other side bottom gate. A 'cabin shaft' was a shortened version - anywhere from 8' up to about 12' overall length - of the long shafts (15' to 16' boathook) carried on every pair of working boats, and was always kept ready to hand on the side-bed side of the motor's cabin top, . . which was how it got its name. I have one! Just not very confident with it...... Still jumping! However., mine doubles as a great mechanism for holding up my engine deck board each morning when I check the oil, water and stern grease levels... I'm puzzled by what you've said about not being confident in using your cabin shaft to close the outside bottom on uphill single locks, and that you're still jumping or stepping across the half lock width gap instead. I think you perhaps misunderstood when I said - "carry what was known as a "cabin shaft" and use that to open or close the other side bottom gate." - and took that to mean carry a cabin shaft on the boat, and use it to close the outside gate from onboard when the boat's passing through the bottom gates. You can altogether dispense with the need for climbing (the new) lockwall ladders, or jumping the gap to the other side gate. As the boat enters the uphill lock, step ashore in the lock tail with the boat (engine in neutral or stopped) carrying enough way to enter the lock, . . and take with you a line (made off securely on board) from somewhere near the stern, . . and the cabin shaft. That gets you ashore, without having to climb any ladders or walk along the other side side of the lock, with everything you need to shut the opposite side bottom gate, and control the boat whilst the lock's filling. Rehearse the routine a few times when you've got a lock to yourself, and it'll quickly become second nature. Single locks with bridges over the lock tail (such as the Trent & Mersey) call for a departure from the method described above to get the line up onto the lockside. You can either chuck a line (made off on board further forard) ashore from the fore-end with the boat at a standstill part way into the lock, or you can lay out the stern line so that you pick it up with the cabin shaft as it passes the bottom gates with the boat carrying enough way to fully enter the lock chamber. As for securing the line you take ashore at the boat end, the best place for it on a modern pleasure boat is a cabin top handrail with a bowline, or through a cabin top cant drain hole. If you make the line off on the (not best) T-stud or (least preferable) the dollies, do it with a well snugged up cow hitch in bowline bight so that it can't slip or lift off.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 4, 2022 18:32:46 GMT
It wasn't about disagreement though was it, you wanted to gas the fecker, and he was not up for that (not surprisingly). Yes, you're right. There was a lot more to it than a flippant historical reference. Telemachus did also mention that he was feeling very emotional about to conflict in Ukraine, although since he has been a Thunderboat member there have been similar conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan and Libya and these didn't seem to affect him in the same way. I can't help wondering if skin colour has something to do with this?
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Post by metanoia on Jul 4, 2022 18:35:56 GMT
Yes, you're right. There was a lot more to it than a flippant historical reference. Telemachus did also mention that he was feeling very emotional about to conflict in Ukraine, although since he has been a Thunderboat member there have been similar conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan and Libya and these didn't seem to affect him in the same way. I can't help wondering if skin colour has something to do with this? Fortunately I have never had the misfortune of seeing Nick's skin colour. Jeff sports some colourful legs - where does that fall into the grand scheme of all things, one wonders?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 18:53:32 GMT
Telemachus did also mention that he was feeling very emotional about to conflict in Ukraine, although since he has been a Thunderboat member there have been similar conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan and Libya and these didn't seem to affect him in the same way. I can't help wondering if skin colour has something to do with this? Fortunately I have never had the misfortune of seeing Nick's skin colour. It's generally yellow, with a red blob on the top of his scalp. He doesn't need head and shoulders shampoo. 😉
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Post by twerp2 (Asleep) on Jul 4, 2022 19:00:50 GMT
I have one! Just not very confident with it...... Still jumping! However., mine doubles as a great mechanism for holding up my engine deck board each morning when I check the oil, water and stern grease levels... I'm puzzled by what you've said about not being confident in using your cabin shaft to close the outside bottom on uphill single locks, and that you're still jumping or stepping across the half lock width gap instead. I think you perhaps misunderstood when I said - "carry what was known as a "cabin shaft" and use that to open or close the other side bottom gate." - and took that to mean carry a cabin shaft on the boat, and use it to close the outside gate from onboard when the boat's passing through the bottom gates. You can altogether dispense with the need for climbing (the new) lockwall ladders, or jumping the gap to the other side gate. As the boat enters the uphill lock, step ashore in the lock tail with the boat (engine in neutral or stopped) carrying enough way to enter the lock, . . and take with you a line (made off securely on board) from somewhere near the stern, . . and the cabin shaft. That gets you ashore, without having to climb any ladders or walk along the other side side of the lock, with everything you need to shut the opposite side bottom gate, and control the boat whilst the lock's filling. Rehearse the routine a few times when you've got a lock to yourself, and it'll quickly become second nature. Single locks with bridges over the lock tail (such as the Trent & Mersey) call for a departure from the method described above to get the line up onto the lockside. You can either chuck a line (made off on board further forard) ashore from the fore-end with the boat at a standstill part way into the lock, or you can lay out the stern line so that you pick it up with the cabin shaft as it passes the bottom gates with the boat carrying enough way to fully enter the lock chamber. As for securing the line you take ashore at the boat end, the best place for it on a modern pleasure boat is a cabin top handrail with a bowline, or through a cabin top cant drain hole. If you make the line off on the (not best) T-stud or (least preferable) the dollies, do it with a well snugged up cow hitch in bowline bight so that it can't slip or lift off. See you can spell it out, Jimbo will be happy now. I used to do this on some locks, but it all about timing and not getting the rope snagged on the gate, or falling on your arse because the stairs leading up are slimy as f**k.
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Post by metanoia on Jul 4, 2022 19:09:45 GMT
Do it lots - never remove/swap any rope, though.
Have four securely tied to my boat at all times - every one of a safe enough length to never foul the prop or trip me.
On the odd occasion this has proved to be too short... I jump!
Fell on my arse in the slime more than once ... I live on a boat.... I love living on my boat x
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Post by ianali on Jul 4, 2022 19:10:08 GMT
I'm puzzled by what you've said about not being confident in using your cabin shaft to close the outside bottom on uphill single locks, and that you're still jumping or stepping across the half lock width gap instead. I think you perhaps misunderstood when I said - "carry what was known as a "cabin shaft" and use that to open or close the other side bottom gate." - and took that to mean carry a cabin shaft on the boat, and use it to close the outside gate from onboard when the boat's passing through the bottom gates. You can altogether dispense with the need for climbing (the new) lockwall ladders, or jumping the gap to the other side gate. As the boat enters the uphill lock, step ashore in the lock tail with the boat (engine in neutral or stopped) carrying enough way to enter the lock, . . and take with you a line (made off securely on board) from somewhere near the stern, . . and the cabin shaft. That gets you ashore, without having to climb any ladders or walk along the other side side of the lock, with everything you need to shut the opposite side bottom gate, and control the boat whilst the lock's filling. Rehearse the routine a few times when you've got a lock to yourself, and it'll quickly become second nature. Single locks with bridges over the lock tail (such as the Trent & Mersey) call for a departure from the method described above to get the line up onto the lockside. You can either chuck a line (made off on board further forard) ashore from the fore-end with the boat at a standstill part way into the lock, or you can lay out the stern line so that you pick it up with the cabin shaft as it passes the bottom gates with the boat carrying enough way to fully enter the lock chamber. As for securing the line you take ashore at the boat end, the best place for it on a modern pleasure boat is a cabin top handrail with a bowline, or through a cabin top cant drain hole. If you make the line off on the (not best) T-stud or (least preferable) the dollies, do it with a well snugged up cow hitch in bowline bight so that it can't slip or lift off. See you can spell it out, Jimbo will be happy now. I used to do this on some locks, but it all about timing and not getting the rope snagged on the gate, or falling on your arse because the stairs leading up are slimy as f**k. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen, also not convinced that many of the gates would be movable using a boat hook. Still I’m often wrong.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Jul 4, 2022 19:32:57 GMT
I'm puzzled by what you've said about not being confident in using your cabin shaft to close the outside bottom on uphill single locks, and that you're still jumping or stepping across the half lock width gap instead. I think you perhaps misunderstood when I said - "carry what was known as a "cabin shaft" and use that to open or close the other side bottom gate." - and took that to mean carry a cabin shaft on the boat, and use it to close the outside gate from onboard when the boat's passing through the bottom gates. You can altogether dispense with the need for climbing (the new) lockwall ladders, or jumping the gap to the other side gate. As the boat enters the uphill lock, step ashore in the lock tail with the boat (engine in neutral or stopped) carrying enough way to enter the lock, . . and take with you a line (made off securely on board) from somewhere near the stern, . . and the cabin shaft. That gets you ashore, without having to climb any ladders or walk along the other side side of the lock, with everything you need to shut the opposite side bottom gate, and control the boat whilst the lock's filling. Rehearse the routine a few times when you've got a lock to yourself, and it'll quickly become second nature. Single locks with bridges over the lock tail (such as the Trent & Mersey) call for a departure from the method described above to get the line up onto the lockside. You can either chuck a line (made off on board further forard) ashore from the fore-end with the boat at a standstill part way into the lock, or you can lay out the stern line so that you pick it up with the cabin shaft as it passes the bottom gates with the boat carrying enough way to fully enter the lock chamber. As for securing the line you take ashore at the boat end, the best place for it on a modern pleasure boat is a cabin top handrail with a bowline, or through a cabin top cant drain hole. If you make the line off on the (not best) T-stud or (least preferable) the dollies, do it with a well snugged up cow hitch in bowline bight so that it can't slip or lift off. I used to do this on some locks, but it all about timing and not getting the rope snagged on the gate, or falling on your arse because the stairs leading up are slimy as f**k. Controlling and checking the boat to a standstill without the use of engine power and with ropes alone should be standard practice at every single lock, . . not just some of them ! Using astern engine power entering a downhill single lock draws mud and rubbish up against the cill and into the chamber, leading to top gate and cill fouling, and rapid accumulation of mud and debris in the chamber bottom. Using astern engine power entering an uphill single lock draws mud and rubbish from the canal bed below the lock onto the bottom cill, and into the chamber, leading to bottom gate and cill fouling.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 19:53:08 GMT
See you can spell it out, Jimbo will be happy now. I used to do this on some locks, but it all about timing and not getting the rope snagged on the gate, or falling on your arse because the stairs leading up are slimy as f**k. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen, also not convinced that many of the gates would be movable using a boat hook. Still I’m often wrong. It can work but yes it does depend to an extent on the condition of the infrastructure. I have not been on narrow canals for a few years now so would not claim to know. Back in the day I fitted a spade handle to my 8ft wooden cabin shaft. This made it better for pulling, and for pushing. Looks a bit odd but very handy addition as it happens. Just make sure it's well fitted and not rotten underneath. Of course these days the correct procedure is to use thick wall aluminium tube for the shafts. More durable lasts longer and of course it is actually available. I do have in my collection a couple of Thames hitcher poles with forged iron internally fitted hook ends. They (Thames) have been using aluminium for a long time. 16ft poles 1/1/8 inch diameter and I think it's 1/8 or 3/16 wall. One of them I found in the River and the other was given to me by a man at a boatyard which was closing down. Nice items. Punt poles also aluminium these days. I was given a racing punt pole someone had found in the River. Good material for pole-like things. Also have a nice light aluminium long shaft with both ends plugged with machined nylon inserts. That's quite a useful item and floats if dropped. Not for levering !!
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