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Post by Telemachus on Aug 25, 2022 7:01:55 GMT
Telemachus said "...the core of my reg is a single chip reg that someone else designed and it does 90% of the work." Do intellectual property rights apply here? No. Obviously if you buy a chip that does stuff, you are entitled to use it and have it do that stuff. Same as if you buy a radio you can use it to listen to stuff. Where IP come in is if you try to reverse engineer it to make your own copies of the chip.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 25, 2022 7:26:58 GMT
I don’t know because I’ve never tried it, but I would think you are correct in that the temperature sensor could be substituted for a resistor to reduce the regulated voltage. No experience of doing that though. OK cheers. Maybe a, question for the other place unless JohnV or peterboat happen to know. Just spotted the notification ...... it's as kris says, I don't charge from the alternator as my main engine is never used for charging the domestics.
The engine starting batteries are stil a Pb bank and in an emergency can be re-charged from battery chargers.
These can run off either the generator or off the inverter from the domestics (or of course if on my mooring shore power)
As Nick says, sounds ok but I have no personal experience
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Post by kris on Aug 25, 2022 7:50:14 GMT
I wonder if an Mppt solar controller could be used. I got a spare one lying around somewhere. Might try it though I guess the current still needs reducing somehow. Either that or just charge the lithiums via the inverter, or travel power. Oh, wait. I haven't got a TP Whaaaat, it's early and I haven't woken up yet. A mppt controller could be used especially if it had lithium settings. But to do this would cost more than a specialist alternator regulator.
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Post by kris on Aug 25, 2022 8:47:52 GMT
It does seem like the choice is still very limited. Not all of us have the time/ability to make our own. So we have to make do. But I did think by now that there would be something on the market. Oh there is the wake speed as well but that doesn’t seem to work with Lucas clones. Wakespeed is also quite a bit more expensive and designed a bit amateurishly. I’ve seen the circuit design before it went “professional”. I know my reg was designed amateurishly as well, but the core of my reg is a single chip reg that someone else designed and it does 90% of the work. Have you come across Balmar regulators? balmar.net/multi-stage-regulators/
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Post by kris on Aug 25, 2022 10:34:14 GMT
Someone on 12v boating forum on Facebook is suggesting I use one of these electrodacus.com/ They do look interesting, on first look it looks like It could replace my mppt controllers as well. I thought people here might be interested.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 25, 2022 10:49:33 GMT
Wakespeed is also quite a bit more expensive and designed a bit amateurishly. I’ve seen the circuit design before it went “professional”. I know my reg was designed amateurishly as well, but the core of my reg is a single chip reg that someone else designed and it does 90% of the work. Have you come across Balmar regulators? balmar.net/multi-stage-regulators/Ah yes Balmar are OK I think, good name in the States, never seen one in the flesh. But I think they are a little more expensive than the Mastervolt Alpha Pro III. You would need the one with a Li profile which looks like the MC-618. However having a quick look it seems that basic programming can be done with a magnet, as opposed to the MV requiring the (£165 or so) Masterbus interface, (free) software and laptop. But then again if you bought a MV from Ed no doubt he would programme it for you. As before, it would be worth asking Ed for his opinion of the MV vs the Balmar. He has decided to go with the former, there must be a reason(s) for that.
Just delving into the Balmar a bit more, for its Li profile it gives bulk charge of 14.3v, absorb of 13.6v and float of 13.4v. In reverse order I think that 13.4v for float is fine. I am not sure what the point of the 13.6v absorb is - I would expect to go straight from the 14.3v to float once the current drops off. I suppose this is a point - it is not too clear exactly how the profile would work in practice, and there is not much to adjust. Whereas with the MV all the parameters can be adjusted (if you have the interface).
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 25, 2022 10:54:14 GMT
Someone on 12v boating forum on Facebook is suggesting I use one of these electrodacus.com/ They do look interesting, on first look it looks like It could replace my mppt controllers as well. I thought people here might be interested. No experience of using an MPPT controller powered from an alternator, but at first sight it seems a really bad idea! And no alternator temperature monitoring.
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Post by kris on Aug 25, 2022 10:58:09 GMT
Ah yes Balmar are OK I think, good name in the States, never seen one in the flesh. But I think they are a little more expensive than the Mastervolt Alpha Pro III. You would need the one with a Li profile which looks like the MC-618. However having a quick look it seems that basic programming can be done with a magnet, as opposed to the MV requiring the (£165 or so) Masterbus interface, (free) software and laptop. But then again if you bought a MV from Ed no doubt he would programme it for you. As before, it would be worth asking Ed for his opinion of the MV vs the Balmar. He has decided to go with the former, there must be a reason(s) for that.
Just delving into the Balmar a bit more, for its Li profile it gives bulk charge of 14.3v, absorb of 13.6v and float of 13.4v. In reverse order I think that 13.4v for float is fine. I am not sure what the point of the 13.6v absorb is - I would expect to go straight from the 14.3v to float once the current drops off. I suppose this is a point - it is not too clear exactly how the profile would work in practice, and there is not much to adjust. Whereas with the MV all the parameters can be adjusted (if you have the interface).
Yes I must ring Ed and find out the gen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 10:59:44 GMT
I'm having some lateral thoughts! What is needed for lithium charging Temperature? Voltage, is it staged as in LA or is it just maximum? Current limit? What else.
I would have thought with the amount of solar batteries used in the domestic world there must be some form of BMS available it's not always built in to the inverter.
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Post by kris on Aug 25, 2022 11:00:43 GMT
Someone on 12v boating forum on Facebook is suggesting I use one of these electrodacus.com/ They do look interesting, on first look it looks like It could replace my mppt controllers as well. I thought people here might be interested. No experience of using an MPPT controller powered from an alternator, but at first sight it seems a really bad idea! And no alternator temperature monitoring. I think the person is suggesting it’s use in conjunction with alt controller. As a battery bms. It does seem overly complicated. But if it could replace the solar moots I have already maybe?
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 25, 2022 11:17:24 GMT
I'm having some lateral thoughts! What is needed for lithium charging Temperature? Voltage, is it staged as in LA or is it just maximum? Current limit? What else. I would have thought with the amount of solar batteries used in the domestic world there must be some form of BMS available it's not always built in to the inverter. The issues are: 1/ Alternator temperature - to stop it overheating due to Li's ability to suck up all current available for prolonged periods
2/ Battery temperature - in the Goldilocks zone ie below about 50C and above 0C 3/ Voltage profile - a sensible charge voltage is 14.3v - 14.4-ish, but as soon as the battery is charged (current falls off to 5% of capacity) the voltage needs to return to float ie around 13.3 or 13.4v, or simply stop/disconnect (the advantage of float over stop/disconnect is that the alternator remains available to supply any large loads) 4/ This assumes there is some sort of BMS to look after top balancing. That bit kris does have.
edit: and also, 5/ if you have a large alternator as we do, something to reduce the field current at low rpm so the engine and drive belt don’t struggle.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 11:28:13 GMT
I'm having some lateral thoughts! What is needed for lithium charging Temperature? Voltage, is it staged as in LA or is it just maximum? Current limit? What else. I would have thought with the amount of solar batteries used in the domestic world there must be some form of BMS available it's not always built in to the inverter. The issues are: 1/ Alternator temperature - to stop it overheating due to Li's ability to suck up all current available for prolonged periods
2/ Battery temperature - in the Goldilocks zone ie below about 50C and above 0C 3/ Voltage profile - a sensible charge voltage is 14.3v - 14.4-ish, but as soon as the battery is charged (current falls off to 5% of capacity) the voltage needs to return to float ie around 13.3 or 13.4v, or simply stop/disconnect (the advantage of float over stop/disconnect is that the alternator remains available to supply any large loads) 4/ This assumes there is some sort of BMS to look after top balancing. That bit kris does have.
edit: and also, 5/ if you have a large alternator as we do, something to reduce the field current at low rpm so the engine and drive belt don’t struggle. Thanks Nick I will continue to mull things over🤔
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 30, 2022 10:12:34 GMT
Someone on the other channel mentioned the Balmar ARS-5 alternator regulator with an external BMS to switch it on and off using the “IGN” connection . As I mentioned these regulators aren’t as flexible as the Alpha Pro III but anyway they both have provision for such external “on/off” switching. So quite a simple solution to avoid overcharging or holding the Li at a high voltage when it is fully charged, would be to use the relay of a BMV712 to cut power to the IGN terminal at the specified /desired SoC (say 80%, 90% or whatever) so the alternator would stop working gracefully even if the engine needed to be kept running to move the boat.
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Post by kris on Aug 30, 2022 11:01:31 GMT
As I remember though the bmv-712 can only do one function like this? At the moment my bmv operates the bgb low voltage cutout. I’ve been doing lots of research I think I’m leaning towards the mastervolt.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 30, 2022 11:17:01 GMT
As I remember though the bmv-712 can only do one function like this? At the moment my bmv operates the bgb low voltage cutout. I’ve been doing lots of research I think I’m leaning towards the mastervolt. Yes that is true, I had forgotten you already had a 712 connected to the BGB. You could always have a second BMV of course, but it is not a very elegant solution I’d agree…
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