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Post by ianali on Jul 2, 2023 16:17:49 GMT
Yeh Ali just gave me a telling off.
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Post by Jim on Jul 2, 2023 16:50:51 GMT
I would guess £200,000 ... lovely, but really not to my taste. I like steam engines and diesel engines, and Jane ... very strange tastes I know 😁 Rog We don't know, do tell, what are Jane's strange tastes?
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Post by dogless on Jul 3, 2023 9:08:01 GMT
So I guess no one here's looked at an electric drive narrow boat. I suppose we're of the generation that expects to hear an engine as part of the narrow boat experience ... I know I do. I guess most 'petrol heads' are of our sort of age too. I was interested in Telemachus 's take on the live aboard electric boat described ... his expertise in electrics may help provide some answers if he's willing. Rog
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Post by Jim on Jul 3, 2023 9:12:28 GMT
So I guess no one here's looked at an electric drive narrow boat. I suppose we're of the generation that expects to hear an engine as part of the narrow boat experience ... I know I do. I guess most 'petrol heads' are of our sort of age too. I was interested in Telemachus 's take on the live aboard electric boat described ... his expertise in electrics may help provide some answers if he's willing. Rog I saw a couple last year, one a big widebeam at Lemonroyd, new. I didn't ask how much. It had diesel backup. I'd like one, if only to confuse the Slow Down brigade and fishists.
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Post by Aloysius on Jul 3, 2023 10:02:52 GMT
It would be an amazing thing to be drifting along in near-silence (I imagine there would be a sort of hum) but the issue is the cost of the tech followed by a realisation that there are some serious drawbacks of electric / solar propulsion in a country famous for rain.
As previously alluded to, a gas-free boat would be a great thing. I just wonder about on-demand hot water and if it would be possible.
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Post by dogless on Jul 3, 2023 10:08:01 GMT
It surprised me how much water noise remains.
I suppose like road noise with an electric car.
Heritage have two day boats, a diesel and an electric, and I had to be told which was which when they passed.
Rog
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Post by on Jul 3, 2023 10:12:59 GMT
My ideal boat is a 30ft x 10ft wide catamaran based houseboat with an electric pod drive in each hull and a garage area between to dock the floating electric beer drinking platform. One side would have lounge chair, fire, galley and lavatory the other side would have bunks and a washroom. cabin top covered in solar. Batteries in the hulls. Windows tall and narrow for privacy. Something like Henry taunts boat would do but I would like the central garage for the canoe. Taunts boat (My ideal shed) I don't need the lady !
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Post by Aloysius on Jul 3, 2023 10:19:26 GMT
It surprised me how much water noise remains. I suppose like road noise with an electric car. Heritage have two day boats, a diesel and an electric, and I had to be told which was which when they passed. Rog Although the hospital silencer really only benefits those around the diesel boat; the engine clatter would still be apparent on board.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 3, 2023 10:45:25 GMT
Watched a 'walk around' an electric drive narrow boat the other day. Very plush with all mod cons like a quality apartment ... gas free, diesel stove and Webasto hot water and heating. It was purely electric drive from 8 x 200 ah LifePO batteries with 1.9 kW of solar and a built in diesel generator to charge batteries when solar won't do it. A very square shell, with no discernable tumblehome to maximise interior space meant it didn't look very attractive to me ... more like a sports car than a boat in my view. But I wondered, bearing in mind all the electric powered devices on board (washing machine, microwave, dishwasher, electric cooker etc.) how likely it was that solar alone could support all this ? I would have thought that any overcast day would require use of the diesel genny, let alone winter months. I wonder if anyone's looked into electric boats or if you electrical experts could express an opinion on how viable it is for a live-aboard boat ? Rog Things like washing machine, microwave, dishwasher and even cooker don’t actually use that much energy because they are not usually on for that long. For example, a washing machine uses significant power only while heating the water after the first fill. The rest of it, chuntering the drum around and pumping out water / letting in rinse water doesn’t use much. I forget how much ours uses (zanussi compact) but these days we can quite happily do a 40C wash entirely from batter power and maybe use up 10% of available energy. We use the air fryer a lot these days (the gas oven rarely), it averages at about 800w so 20 mins uses about 1/4 kWh. Our batteries have about 6kwh usable. However I wouldn’t want to run the tumble drier without the engine on, it uses a steady 2kw for 45 mins - 1hr. Then again, we COULD do that I suppose, it just goes against the grain of decades of Lead Acid battery philosophy! Your description of the boat misses an important parameter, the battery voltage. 200Ah doesn’t give an indication of energy without this parameter. For example 8 x 200Ah at 12v is half the energy of 8 x 200Ah at 24v or 1/4 that at 48v. Boats using electric propulsion often seem to have 48v batteries. If so 8 x 200Ah at 48v is about 75kwh. Which is a lot! It’s generally reckoned that 3mph in a narrowboat needs about 3kw, so there would be more than enough for a days cruise and cooking etc. The thing with lithium batteries is that they are just like a bucket of electricity. You can pour electricity out, pour it back in again, without any of the irritations of lead acid (inefficiency and slow charge). HOWEVER the bottom line as always with batteries is that you ultimately have to put back in what you took out. They don’t make electricity, they just store it. 1.9 kw of solar might put in 10kwh on a good summer’s day, moored or cruising in full sun, which would be enough to run the services and cruise a good few miles. But in winter, or if you are moored under trees, or in the rain etc, forget it! You will need to burn lots of fossil fuel to recharge the batteries.
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Post by dogless on Jul 3, 2023 10:52:43 GMT
Thanks for that.
It did superficially seem unlikely that solar alone could power everything on a 24/7/365 liveaboard and I guess you confirm that reaction.
I suppose adding a 7kw diesel genny was a clue 😁
Rog
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Post by Aloysius on Jul 3, 2023 11:03:25 GMT
And the genny itself would cost a few shillings...but if it could be of the sort which was welded-in or bolted down to prevent theft that would be good. I imagine you would need extended engine room space to accommodate all of this though. There would be some savings to be had in that regard because the large diesel engine is absent, but the electric motor would claw some of it back.
All of these questions could be answered with big lumps of money. If I win the lottery I'll give it more thought.
If you had diesel heating then you'd perhaps only need one fuel type to power every eventuality. This would be quite luxurious (assuming you could still easily buy diesel).
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 3, 2023 11:21:06 GMT
And the genny itself would cost a few shillings...but if it could be of the sort which was welded-in or bolted down to prevent theft that would be good. I imagine you would need extended engine room space to accommodate all of this though. There would be some savings to be had in that regard because the large diesel engine is absent, but the electric motor would claw some of it back. All of these questions could be answered with big lumps of money. If I win the lottery I'll give it more thought. If you had diesel heating then you'd perhaps only need one fuel type to power every eventuality. This would be quite luxurious (assuming you could still easily buy diesel). I had presumed that the genny would be below decks properly installed, water cooled etc. I think a 7kw genny would be quite small compared to eg a Beta43 and of course the electric motor would be quite small to, so I would doubt the combination would be any bigger than a Beta 43. However you would need a lot of space for all those batteries!
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 3, 2023 11:23:15 GMT
We moored alongside a no-gas boat a few years ago, they ran the genny when cooking their dinner. You couldn’t really hear it from outside, but from inside our boat there was a rather annoying rumbling vibration - being carried efficiently through the water I presume.
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Post by on Jul 3, 2023 11:30:00 GMT
There is an ironic potential side effect of having a lot of expensive gear on an electric boat designed to be run on solar power.
Just when you really fancy a nice shaded mooring on a hot sunny day there will be the issue about wanting to get maximum charge rate. I think people might start to shun the shade.
I suppose this is good as it leaves more space for people whose lives are mot being run by a silly con thing.
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Post by Aloysius on Jul 3, 2023 11:49:26 GMT
We moored alongside a no-gas boat a few years ago, they ran the genny when cooking their dinner. You couldn’t really hear it from outside, but from inside our boat there was a rather annoying rumbling vibration - being carried efficiently through the water I presume. This is not a drawback of a gas-free boat.
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