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Post by Graham on Nov 1, 2016 16:13:24 GMT
Interesting Nick, the solar panels are a charger when the battery is gaining charge the smartgauge become inaccurate, already admitted. So why is it suddenly that one source of charging should suddenly become "mythical interference" particularly one capable of delivering 30+Amps You make no sense Sir I think there is no doubt that the SG copes fine when the solar is producing 30A. Or even 20A. Or even 10A. Same as when a charger is connected. It does not necessarily become inaccurate, it may do over time, until the next discharge cycle. where there has been some doubt expressed is when the solar is producing just a trickle such that the SG is not quite sure whether it's in charging mode or discharging mode. However as I said, lots of people with solar + SG say this never gives them a problem. I can't comment from 1st hand experience since I don't have solar. The issue has never been quantified so I strongly suspect it is imagination. Well Nick in the real world it is not unreasonable to say it is declared that the smartgauge is inaccurate while the batteries are being charged. Therefore if there is charge being put into the batteries from any source the smartgauge will be inaccurate by up to 10%. Now that is not a problem if one is not trying to gauge the amount of charge that has entered the battery and has a decent ammeter to measure tail current. But it is a point to be aware of when the smartgauge drops or increase with step what the likley cause is.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Nov 1, 2016 17:20:48 GMT
I have the ammeter on my battery charger to work out when the amps are steady at less than 1. Also an ammeter on the solar controller. I'm aware that loads will change this but I've spent so much time staring at the damned things that I know exactly how each device increases amps going in when charging. 1 light .5 amps, computer charging 1.2 amps etc. etc.
If I have a badly sulphated battery, which I think I have, what's the trick to made sure the Smartguage is set up correctly? I was thinking along the lines of ensuring that the battery is fully charged before setting up the guage. Then I presume if I use 10AH of a battery that was originally 110AH but is now 30AH because of sulphation; the guage would read the battery as 70% charged. Is that it?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 17:31:07 GMT
I have the ammeter on my battery charger to work out when the amps are steady at less than 1. Also an ammeter on the solar controller. I'm aware that loads will change this but I've spent so much time staring at the damned things that I know exactly how each device increases amps going in when charging. 1 light .5 amps, computer charging 1.2 amps etc. etc. If I have a badly sulphated battery, which I think I have, what's the trick to made sure the Smartguage is set up correctly? I was thinking along the lines of ensuring that the battery is fully charged before setting up the guage. Then I presume if I use 10AH of a battery that was originally 110AH but is now 30AH because of sulphation; the guage would read the battery as 70% charged. Is that it? If your batteries have a reduced capacity, the SG will show the state of charge of this reduced capacity .i.e it will show 100 percent if it thinks the batteries are fully charged whether it is 100 percent of 110AH or 100 percent of 50AH.
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Post by Graham on Nov 1, 2016 17:40:16 GMT
I have the ammeter on my battery charger to work out when the amps are steady at less than 1. Also an ammeter on the solar controller. I'm aware that loads will change this but I've spent so much time staring at the damned things that I know exactly how each device increases amps going in when charging. 1 light .5 amps, computer charging 1.2 amps etc. etc. If I have a badly sulphated battery, which I think I have, what's the trick to made sure the Smartguage is set up correctly? I was thinking along the lines of ensuring that the battery is fully charged before setting up the guage. Then I presume if I use 10AH of a battery that was originally 110AH but is now 30AH because of sulphation; the guage would read the battery as 70% charged. Is that it? Ricco, all of your problems with sulphation are related to undercharging of batteries, waiting too long to fully charge them. I really cannot see how a smartgauge is going to help you charge your batteries fully to reduce and hopefully stop sulphation. All a smartgauge will tell you is how much of the remaining capacity you have used. That ammeter in the main battery feed is to me from experience important if you don't want to spend the money on it and install it then I see this all happening in a year's time. I wish you good luck and I am hoping I am wrong
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 1, 2016 17:54:36 GMT
I think there is no doubt that the SG copes fine when the solar is producing 30A. Or even 20A. Or even 10A. Same as when a charger is connected. It does not necessarily become inaccurate, it may do over time, until the next discharge cycle. where there has been some doubt expressed is when the solar is producing just a trickle such that the SG is not quite sure whether it's in charging mode or discharging mode. However as I said, lots of people with solar + SG say this never gives them a problem. I can't comment from 1st hand experience since I don't have solar. The issue has never been quantified so I strongly suspect it is imagination. Well Nick in the real world it is not unreasonable to say it is declared that the smartgauge is inaccurate while the batteries are being charged. Therefore if there is charge being put into the batteries from any source the smartgauge will be inaccurate by up to 10%. Now that is not a problem if one is not trying to gauge the amount of charge that has entered the battery and has a decent ammeter to measure tail current. But it is a point to be aware of when the smartgauge drops or increase with step what the likley cause is. What I find is that the SG can be inaccurate mid-charge but by the time 100% is approached the charge current is in the range most people consider to be adequately fully charged ie 1% to 4% of capacity. In other words where it matters, near 100%, the SG is much more accurate than 10%.
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Post by Graham on Nov 1, 2016 18:10:40 GMT
Well Nick in the real world it is not unreasonable to say it is declared that the smartgauge is inaccurate while the batteries are being charged. Therefore if there is charge being put into the batteries from any source the smartgauge will be inaccurate by up to 10%. Now that is not a problem if one is not trying to gauge the amount of charge that has entered the battery and has a decent ammeter to measure tail current. But it is a point to be aware of when the smartgauge drops or increase with step what the likley cause is. What I find is that the SG can be inaccurate mid-charge but by the time 100% is approached the charge current is in the range most people consider to be adequately fully charged ie 1% to 4% of capacity. In other words where it matters, near 100%, the SG is much more accurate than 10%. mmmm Sorry what yours will do does not mean it is guaranteeable that other will do the same. I remember being blasted and blasted for even dare to suggest that a certain smartgauge could be faulty it was not possible could not happen. It was faulty. Also I seem to remember some test where a smartgauge was 4% or so different of other measurements when the tail current was below 1% of capacity. Please do not encourage reliance on things that cannot be guaranteed unless you are willing to pay for the batteries when they end up sulphated. You would not rely on one on your boat to judge full charge so don't ask others to.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 1, 2016 18:14:10 GMT
What I find is that the SG can be inaccurate mid-charge but by the time 100% is approached the charge current is in the range most people consider to be adequately fully charged ie 1% to 4% of capacity. In other words where it matters, near 100%, the SG is much more accurate than 10%. You would not rely on one on your boat to judge full charge so don't ask others to. I would and did for a year or so. I latterly got the Mastershunt mostly so I could keep track of the battery health by comparing its AH- based SoC reading with that of SG.
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Post by Graham on Nov 1, 2016 18:17:11 GMT
You would not rely on one on your boat to judge full charge so don't ask others to. I would and did for a year or so. I latterly got the Mastershunt mostly so I could keep track of the battery health by comparing its AH- based SoC reading with that of SG. So why do you hammer tail current? Stop trying to squirm it is not dignified
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 18:22:43 GMT
I have the ammeter on my battery charger to work out when the amps are steady at less than 1. Also an ammeter on the solar controller. I'm aware that loads will change this but I've spent so much time staring at the damned things that I know exactly how each device increases amps going in when charging. 1 light .5 amps, computer charging 1.2 amps etc. etc. If I have a badly sulphated battery, which I think I have, what's the trick to made sure the Smartguage is set up correctly? I was thinking along the lines of ensuring that the battery is fully charged before setting up the guage. Then I presume if I use 10AH of a battery that was originally 110AH but is now 30AH because of sulphation; the guage would read the battery as 70% charged. Is that it? If your batteries have a reduced capacity, the SG will show the state of charge of this reduced capacity .i.e it will show 100 percent if it thinks the batteries are fully charged whether it is 100 percent of 110AH or 100 percent of 50AH. Unless of course your batteries are below 50% of their origional capacity, in which case your batteries are broken and SG will give you inaccurate readings as I found out earlier this year.
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Post by Graham on Nov 1, 2016 18:24:15 GMT
If your batteries have a reduced capacity, the SG will show the state of charge of this reduced capacity .i.e it will show 100 percent if it thinks the batteries are fully charged whether it is 100 percent of 110AH or 100 percent of 50AH. Unless of course your batteries are below 50% of their origional capacity, in which case your batteries are broken and SG will give you inaccurate readings as I found out earlier this year. Ah yes I seem to remember that, had forgotten
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 1, 2016 18:27:56 GMT
I would and did for a year or so. I latterly got the Mastershunt mostly so I could keep track of the battery health by comparing its AH- based SoC reading with that of SG. So why do you hammer tail current? Stop trying to squirm it is not dignified What's wrong with squirming, I've got an itchy bottom. Anyway you said that I wouldn't rely on SG alone when in fact I did. In part this is because charging is not really an issue for us. We cruise 7 or 8 hours a day and the batteries are usually nearly full by lunchtime, take a a slight dip when we run the electric kettle at lunchtime, and are probably properly fully charged by 2 or 3pm at the latest. If I were someone who wanted to run the engine/genny for the minimum time, I'd want an ammeter. But that wasn't your question.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 18:36:10 GMT
If your batteries have a reduced capacity, the SG will show the state of charge of this reduced capacity .i.e it will show 100 percent if it thinks the batteries are fully charged whether it is 100 percent of 110AH or 100 percent of 50AH. Unless of course your batteries are below 50% of their origional capacity, in which case your batteries are broken and SG will give you inaccurate readings as I found out earlier this year. Which I guess you wont know accurately unless you have an Ammeter, or conduct a proper capacity test. Seems like the ideal scenario, is to have an Ammeter and Smartgauge and know how to use them!
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Post by Graham on Nov 1, 2016 18:39:48 GMT
So why do you hammer tail current? Stop trying to squirm it is not dignified What's wrong with squirming, I've got an itchy bottom. Anyway you said that I wouldn't rely on SG alone when in fact I did. In part this is because charging is not really an issue for us. We cruise 7 or 8 hours a day and the batteries are usually nearly full by lunchtime, take a a slight dip when we run the electric kettle at lunchtime, and are probably properly fully charged by 2 or 3pm at the latest. If I were someone who wanted to run the engine/genny for the minimum time, I'd want an ammeter. But that wasn't your question. You see this is your problem you don't put the customer, Ricco in this case, first and foremost. You look for ways to get at people, irritate them whatever you call it. It is a bit of fun to you not seriously sorting someones problem so they will be better off. I have said my bit it is up to Ricco
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 1, 2016 18:45:02 GMT
This is nothing to do with Rico. We have already given him our advice, which was to have an ammeter with his SG. This is about answering your questions, which I have done honestly and fully. If you didn't ask the right question I suggest that is your failing,
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 19:14:39 GMT
Unless of course your batteries are below 50% of their origional capacity, in which case your batteries are broken and SG will give you inaccurate readings as I found out earlier this year. Which I guess you wont know accurately unless you have an Ammeter, or conduct a proper capacity test. Seems like the ideal scenario, is to have an Ammeter and Smartgauge and know how to use them! Neither SG or an ammeter will tell you the actual capacity of your batteries. The only way to find the capacity is to fully charge the batteries, let them rest for a while, measure voltage or specific gravity, connect a known load for a specific period of time (50w bulb for 10hrs will take about 40ah from your batteries). Measure gravity or voltage and work out the capacity from that.
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