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Post by dogless on Oct 5, 2023 10:25:37 GMT
Just been reading our beloved PM's plan to make the UK 'smoking free' ((defined as less than 5% smoking) by 2030.
The number of smokers has been dropping year on year, and continues to do so.
It seems to me a guaranteed method of creating a new black market, and almost instantly putting smoking in the same group as illegal drug use, and we all know how well the 'war on drugs' has gone over the years ... a 'Prohibition' for the UK and modern times at a stroke, potentially.
Also it strikes me that it may empower future governments to choose alcohol, cream cakes, chocolate or whatever other vice they may decide is bad for us, to be outlawed because 'they know best'
Surely we should have the right to make choices, even bad ones, for ourselves ?
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 10:39:56 GMT
I'm not a smoker, but do like vaping. Anyway, nanny feckin state innit, totally wrong. We're going from elected government to a dictatorship, very quickly I might add. Bring on a civil war, clear the air a bit.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Oct 5, 2023 10:44:56 GMT
They should call it "The War Against Tobacco" or "twat" for short.
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Post by dogless on Oct 5, 2023 10:46:34 GMT
That's very good Mr StabbyNot like you at all 🤣 Rog
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Post by Jim on Oct 5, 2023 11:05:20 GMT
It's a free cynical ploy to be seen to be doing something, in line with "Vote Tory for Change". How many of the projects that are promised with the diverted hs2 billions are already costed and planned, double counting at it's finest. Rishi is desperate to retain power, being the last in a line of unelected prime ministers who have failed the country.
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Post by fi on Oct 5, 2023 11:28:08 GMT
The idea will make progress on lowering smoking levels even if a black market occurs (well I should say increases, as there is already one).
I remain unconvinced that the idea balances freedoms to make choices (even bad ones) against the good that will result. Smoking is harmful, everyone knows that. Humans have a very long history of taking mind altering drugs and tobacco is one, ban it and people will choose the next one - for better or worse.
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 5, 2023 11:51:36 GMT
Someone made an interesting counterpoint to the “freedom of choice” thing, which is that there are lots of smokers who want to give up, but they can’t. Their addiction has removed that choice from them.
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Post by dogless on Oct 5, 2023 14:00:05 GMT
Addictive personality traits exist ... some individuals 'make-up' directs them towards a smoking, drinking, gambling addiction or whatever.
It has been suggested that some eating disorders are related to this addictive tendency.
I'm not convinced that state control 'for our own good' is the way to go, but there again I'm no fan of censorship.
Rog
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Post by Aloysius on Oct 5, 2023 15:21:02 GMT
I smoke. But there are no good arguments for continuing. I don't smoke ready-made cigs which are astronomical so just as well I've always preferred a roll-up. And I've always made them thin. One pouch of the stuff lasts about a week. Still, the price is a major factor in my desire to quit, it just keeps going up and I resent paying it. I guess that's the point.
I have in the past stopped smoking for about six months, which curiously is when the desire to smoke seems to really kick in. I've been through that process a few times.
Lately it appears to be becoming an obstacle to healthcare; whatever the problem, if you admit you smoke then that's the root of whatever is the trouble.
Maybe the answer is to have a vape handy. Maybe it will mean I just spend more money on vapes instead.
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Post by dogless on Oct 5, 2023 15:33:19 GMT
We both smoked quite heavily (20 plus a day) and only gave up in 1994 when we decided to buy a house with the money we had been quite literally burning.
But I have other vices I enjoy (whisky for one) which are probably not good for me.
As an adult I feel I should be free to decide whether I continue or not and would expect government has more pressing issues to deal with than my life choices.
Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 5, 2023 15:46:25 GMT
We both smoked quite heavily (20 plus a day) and only gave up in 1994 when we decided to buy a house with the money we had been quite literally burning. But I have other vices I enjoy (whisky for one) which are probably not good for me. As an adult I feel I should be free to decide whether I continue or not and would expect government has more pressing issues to deal with than my life choices. Rog However there is a related issue for the government to deal with - the NHS budget. Smokers use more than average NHS resources and are more likely to suffer permanent ill health than renders them unable to work. Perhaps there is an argument that tobacco tax payment makes up for it, but I’ve no idea what the actual figures are and anyway they would just be a guess. My point is that a person’s choice to smoke does have implications for government and tax payers.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 15:55:59 GMT
We both smoked quite heavily (20 plus a day) and only gave up in 1994 when we decided to buy a house with the money we had been quite literally burning. But I have other vices I enjoy (whisky for one) which are probably not good for me. As an adult I feel I should be free to decide whether I continue or not and would expect government has more pressing issues to deal with than my life choices. Rog However there is a related issue for the government to deal with - the NHS budget. Smokers use more than average NHS resources and are more likely to suffer permanent ill health than renders them unable to work. Perhaps there is an argument that tobacco tax payment makes up for it, but I’ve no idea what the actual figures are and anyway they would just be a guess. My point is that a person’s choice to smoke does have implications for government and tax payers. Previous governments have received £billions from taxing tobacco, the nhs was basically being funded by such taxation. It's only in recent years that the nhs has been struggling, most probably down to the drop in tax income from tobacco.
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Post by fi on Oct 5, 2023 15:58:41 GMT
Smoking revenue brings in about 10bn a year, NHS costs about 160bn a year (numbers can be argued about).
I'm considered a very heavy smoker trying to change to vaping.
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Post by Aloysius on Oct 5, 2023 16:55:16 GMT
Smoking revenue brings in about 10bn a year, NHS costs about 160bn a year (numbers can be argued about).
I'm considered a very heavy smoker trying to change to vaping.
Just out of interest, how many do you have to smoke per day to be classed as 'very heavy'?
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Post by fi on Oct 5, 2023 17:00:47 GMT
Smoking revenue brings in about 10bn a year, NHS costs about 160bn a year (numbers can be argued about).
I'm considered a very heavy smoker trying to change to vaping.
Just out of interest, how many do you have to smoke per day to be classed as 'very heavy'? Less than I smoke. I've admitted to the doc to 20 a day...
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