|
Post by Telemachus on Mar 23, 2017 18:52:36 GMT
But there are plenty of States that don't have the death penalty, or perhaps you are too thick to know that? You could live in one of those and bask in the very long sentences given in pretty unpleasant jails - proper punishment - without having to be concerned about a death penalty. So no different to here then? As an example, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley ended up receiving whole life tariffs. Personally I consider that to be the correct sentence. I don't consider either to be a "victim". If it was in your gift to be able to set their sentences, what would it have been? No, quite different from here, much longer sentences for relatively minor offences, with more of a "punishment" concept. I don't know enough about the particular circumstances of IB and MH to comment. One would have to see the medical reports etc. But certainly they shouldn't be let out if they still present a risk to the public.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Mar 23, 2017 19:20:48 GMT
So no different to here then? As an example, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley ended up receiving whole life tariffs. Personally I consider that to be the correct sentence. I don't consider either to be a "victim". If it was in your gift to be able to set their sentences, what would it have been? I don't know enough about the particular circumstances of IB and MH to comment. One would have to see the medical reports etc. But certainly they shouldn't be let out if they still present a risk to the public. They murdered five children aged between 10 and 17 in the 1960s, at least four of whom were tortured and sexually assaulted. Hindley died fifteen years ago but Brady is still alive. Let's assume that he is no longer a danger to children and remains incarcerated as punishment. Would you consider that he is suffering a wrong by being deprived of his liberty?
|
|
|
Post by thebfg on Mar 23, 2017 20:57:18 GMT
Saw this and thought it was quite good and maybe appropriateΒ The IRA never sought to justify its crimes by relegion, the meme is wrong. Your right it shouldn't say Catholics, but I never made it But it's kinda right in a roundabout kind of way. Catholics/protestants, were not to blame just like any foreign national was not to blame for London but many want to blame some. And although they were quick to label it terrorism, I have been too busy today and have an unread paper to read. But has race or religion for anything to do with this attack?
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Mar 23, 2017 21:04:38 GMT
I don't know enough about the particular circumstances of IB and MH to comment. One would have to see the medical reports etc. But certainly they shouldn't be let out if they still present a risk to the public. They murdered five children aged between 10 and 17 in the 1960s, at least four of whom were tortured and sexually assaulted. Hindley died fifteen years ago but Brady is still alive. Let's assume that he is no longer a danger to children and remains incarcerated as punishment. Would you consider that he is suffering a wrong by being deprived of his liberty? Seeing as Brady is a victim, and we live in such a caring society, the remainder of his full life term could be commuted, replaced by community service. Being as he is no longer a danger to anyone, perhaps he could serve his community service helping out in a children's home?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 21:15:44 GMT
They murdered five children aged between 10 and 17 in the 1960s, at least four of whom were tortured and sexually assaulted. Hindley died fifteen years ago but Brady is still alive. Let's assume that he is no longer a danger to children and remains incarcerated as punishment. Would you consider that he is suffering a wrong by being deprived of his liberty? Seeing as Brady is a victim, and we live in such a caring society, the remainder of his full life term could be commuted, replaced by community service. Being as he is no longer a danger to anyone, perhaps he could serve his community service helping out in a children's home? Perhaps he could provide a home care service, help nick with his daily toilet necessities etc ππ
|
|
|
Post by thebfg on Mar 23, 2017 21:16:08 GMT
I know that was tongue in cheek Ricco but for clarity he should never ever be released.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 21:31:08 GMT
The BBC have just released a breaking news update saying a fifth person has died, a 75 year old but there is no reference to it now.
I suspect they have cocked up perhaps releasing info. before they were supposed to.
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Mar 23, 2017 21:34:02 GMT
I know that was tongue in cheek Ricco but for clarity he should never ever be released. I agree but hey, neither you or I set up society in such a twisted way that criminals are viewed as victims. Maybe my suggestion was a bit over the top. Another idea: you know how ex. drug users often visit schools to warn kids about the dangers of drug taking, based on their personal experience? Well, why not send Brady round the schools warning the youngsters about the dangers of murdering predatory paedophiles? He's well qualified to do this. And, as he's doing it as community service there would be no cost to the public purse. It's a win:win, all the way.
|
|
|
Post by thebfg on Mar 23, 2017 21:47:45 GMT
I know that was tongue in cheek Ricco but for clarity he should never ever be released. I agree but hey, neither you or I set up society in such a twisted way that criminals are viewed as victims. Maybe my suggestion was a bit over the top. Another idea: you know how ex. drug users often visit schools to warn kids about the dangers of drug taking, based on their personal experience? Well, why not send Brady round the schools warning the youngsters about the dangers of murdering predatory paedophiles? He's well qualified to do this. And, as he's doing it as community service there would be no cost to the public purse. It's a win:win, all the way.Β Now that's a more interesting way of putting. Like former burglars showing homeowners how to stop getting burgled. Is it because it's more clinical. A reformed drug user is just that and it's pretty easy to prove that they are reformed. However how do you prove a killer won't kill again. Surely it's just a moral thing. Would you let him near your kids. It would be a national scandal and people would get sacked over it.
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Mar 23, 2017 22:10:40 GMT
It was completely tongue in cheek, of course. It's a funny old world isn't it. While the criminal seems to be seen as the victim, often, that's hugely dependent on the crime. If he or she kills someone it could be because of the environment they were brought up in. There could be 'diminished responsibility', for any number of reasons. Certainly, if the person is proved to be mentally ill, that will be a mitigating factor, both in the sentence handed down, and in the public opinion as regards the criminal concerned. A mother might even be able to kill her own child and get off reasonably lightly.
On the other hand: as soon as a child is involved, and there's any suggestion of sexual activity the rule book seems to change, completely. To me, anyone who has such urges is, must be, mentally ill. It's so abhorrent that no sane person could possibly contemplate this type of activity. This particular mental illness, rather than acting as mitigation for the crime, serves to multiply the crime.
|
|
|
Post by tonyqj on Mar 23, 2017 22:55:31 GMT
The BBC have just released a breaking news update saying a fifth person has died, a 75 year old. Sky are reporting the same.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 22:57:13 GMT
The BBC have just released a breaking news update saying a fifth person has died, a 75 year old. Sky are reporting the same. Now confirmed, he just hasn't been named yet as not all rels. contacted..
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Mar 24, 2017 0:22:09 GMT
I don't know enough about the particular circumstances of IB and MH to comment. One would have to see the medical reports etc. But certainly they shouldn't be let out if they still present a risk to the public. They murdered five children aged between 10 and 17 in the 1960s, at least four of whom were tortured and sexually assaulted. Hindley died fifteen years ago but Brady is still alive. Let's assume that he is no longer a danger to children and remains incarcerated as punishment. Would you consider that he is suffering a wrong by being deprived of his liberty? <sorry, been out watching Russel Howard live - he was very good!> I am well aware of what they did. My point was that I didn't really know why they did it, what their state of mental health was. IIRC he is still in hospital rather than prison, so clearly the medics don't think he is sane. Even if he were suddenly to get well again, you can't really keep someone in prison for 50 years and then just decide to let them out into society - there is no way they'd be able to cope. So I don't see it as a black and white thing. You need to keep someone like that isolated from society. But since he was a paranoid schizophrenic he was ill and of diminished responsibility. If you can cure him then why would you want to keep him in prison any longer than you need to - but if it takes 50 years to cure him then it's too late to let him out. And can you ever actually cure someone of paranoid schizophrenia? i am not a fan of capital punishment but in cases like that I do wonder why we keep people alive and incarcerated for 50 years plus. Apart from anything else, it costs a fortune! One argument against capital punishment is the risk of making a mistake, but in some cases perhaps the degree of certainty is such that this is no longer an issue. As I understand it he wants to die but is routinely force fed. Is there really any point in forcing someone to stay alive just so they can be kept in prison? Fortunately I don't have to decide.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Mar 24, 2017 0:22:58 GMT
They murdered five children aged between 10 and 17 in the 1960s, at least four of whom were tortured and sexually assaulted. Hindley died fifteen years ago but Brady is still alive. Let's assume that he is no longer a danger to children and remains incarcerated as punishment. Would you consider that he is suffering a wrong by being deprived of his liberty? Seeing as Brady is a victim, and we live in such a caring society, the remainder of his full life term could be commuted, replaced by community service. Being as he is no longer a danger to anyone, perhaps he could serve his community service helping out in a children's home? But he is still mentally ill and couldn't function in society.
|
|
|
Post by patty on Mar 24, 2017 6:47:43 GMT
A man whose been in hospital with paranoid schizophrenia for 50 years is clearly sick. If he's not of sound mind I guess the powers that be cannot allow him to kill himself through starvation as it could be said he didn't know what he was doing...even if he did..it still wouldn't be allowed. He's better where he is...Can u imagine our media should his release be suggested?..then the pain to relatives of lost, murdered kids....some things cannot be.
|
|