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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 8:48:02 GMT
I don't see the point of the risk in a flat-bottomed boat, of attempting to plough through ferocious waves. Canal boats are for canals. Why not turn left and head out into the North Sea for adventure in a narrowboat, if you enjoy risk? Have any narrowboats (or wide beams) ever flipped over and sunk? Yeah but...if we don’t take risk, what are we going to brag about in the pub to other boaters?
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Post by Jim on Sept 2, 2018 8:51:30 GMT
ps - I'm running through these videos to check out our route before we do it, very handy for exploring the terrain before we get there. Keeping my finger or tip of pen on the places as we go through on the Pearson's guide whilst watching the videos. So that we know what's coming, what the villages/towns look like, and some idea of if the pubs are any good (terrible reviews first on Tripadvisor, of course!). I now know how to get to Pendeford Morrisons from the canal, and that it's open from 10am on a Sunday. Whatever happened to they joy or surprise of discovering something for the first time in real time, unplanned. Why bother going if you've been there virtually.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 8:55:58 GMT
NRrow boats are pretty stable really. Its hull openings and doors which are the weakness.
There was a small narrow boat sunk a few years ago. It was craned in at south dock. Air cooling vent in the side of the hull. Went out of the lock then "wham" a high speed inflatable threw a wave at it and it was on the river bed within a few minutes.
Not ideal but its thankfully rare.
there was also an incident where a city cruises vessel hit a narrow boat from behind and destroyed the guard rail and tiller on the nb. No-one hurt.
I believe the history of narrow boat use of the Thames involves very few serious accidents.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 8:56:21 GMT
ps - I'm running through these videos to check out our route before we do it, very handy for exploring the terrain before we get there. Keeping my finger or tip of pen on the places as we go through on the Pearson's guide whilst watching the videos. So that we know what's coming, what the villages/towns look like, and some idea of if the pubs are any good (terrible reviews first on Tripadvisor, of course!). I now know how to get to Pendeford Morrisons from the canal, and that it's open from 10am on a Sunday. Whatever happened to they joy or surprise of discovering something for the first time in real time, unplanned. Why bother going if you've been there virtually. I must admit I had exactly the same thoughts as you Jim.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 2, 2018 9:17:40 GMT
ps - I'm running through these videos to check out our route before we do it, very handy for exploring the terrain before we get there. Keeping my finger or tip of pen on the places as we go through on the Pearson's guide whilst watching the videos. So that we know what's coming, what the villages/towns look like, and some idea of if the pubs are any good (terrible reviews first on Tripadvisor, of course!). I now know how to get to Pendeford Morrisons from the canal, and that it's open from 10am on a Sunday. Whatever happened to they joy or surprise of discovering something for the first time in real time, unplanned. Why bother going if you've been there virtually. I like to plan things so that little goes wrong, and we have a nice clean-cut holiday. First time I looked these videos it was all new to me. Pirkko has looked once and she says she won't remember all that when we come to it. I have made a map and may continue to fill it in. We can see where we are, what our original timetable was and if we have time to slow down, or do we need to speed up. When we get there it will all be new to me again, the weather and time of day adjust everything anew. I like to avoid the shitty pubs and take Pirkko to nice places and hear her say "How did you know this was here?" And I say "Aha!" I see things in a different way, also, when I am on the hunt for photos. Plotting and planning is fun, and one of my current tasks is to distill Summer's jobs-list onto our next trip in October, and a challenge in October is to knock off as many of these as we can as well as boating. The driving is around 6 hours maximum per day so we should have plenty of time to take it easy and enjoy our whisky and beers and wines and gourmet home(boat)-cooked meals. If we have spare time we can make some short trips round the lanes on our bikes. We have a plane to catch at the end of the trip, and we must not cross our deadlines for packing everything up and getting ourselves to the airport in good time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 19:38:08 GMT
The best solution would be to require all boater skippers to radio VTS on CH14 when approaching tower bridge and again when passing Wandsworth Bridge or vice versa. This has been the way to do it for as long as I can remember. Its now mandatory for boats over 46ft to have VHF so no reason for them not to call unless they are stupid. Just the same as reaching Sea Reach no3 and calling in to say that you are transfering to Medway VTS or vice versa.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 20:11:14 GMT
When I go inward from Limehouse in my barge I inform VTS by VHF and they usually say call again when you arrive at Teddington but I can't transmit from there. at the end of the day it's the area around the pool and the bridges which is the problem. I understand the mobile phone thing but to me it seems more important to let other traffic know you are there rather than just VTS. Its only a short stretch of river but its massively different to everything else on the river. If TonyDunkley is right and there have been multiple incidents in weeks then I suspect its something to do with the shit tunnel works and alterations to bridge arches rather than CRT. CRT have been going for 6 years. A very recent concentration of problems is much more likely to be a PLA communication and organisation problem I believe. www.tideway.london/the-tunnel/construction-sites/blackfriars-bridge-foreshore-city-of-london/
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Post by TonyDunkley on Sept 3, 2018 6:45:04 GMT
When I go inward from Limehouse in my barge I inform VTS by VHF and they usually say call again when you arrive at Teddington but I can't transmit from there. at the end of the day it's the area around the pool and the bridges which is the problem. I understand the mobile phone thing but to me it seems more important to let other traffic know you are there rather than just VTS. Its only a short stretch of river but its massively different to everything else on the river. If TonyDunkley is right and there have been multiple incidents in weeks then I suspect its something to do with the shit tunnel works and alterations to bridge arches rather than CRT. CRT have been going for 6 years. A very recent concentration of problems is much more likely to be a PLA communication and organisation problem I believe. www.tideway.london/the-tunnel/construction-sites/blackfriars-bridge-foreshore-city-of-london/There is no one, single cause behind this recent spate of incidents, but it's C&RT who are sending inexperienced people in ill-equipped and less than ideally suitable boats into what must be the busiest and most congested few miles of commercially used river in the UK. Much of the responsibility for any subsequent incidents, mishaps or serious accidents has to rest with with those having ultimate control over passage through the locks at Bow, Limehouse, and Brentford. The figure for eight recent incidents comes directly from the PLA - seven over the last few weeks plus Mr Stabby's 10 August attempt to widen one of the arches at the Blackfriars Bridges. There's a good opportunity here for C&RT and the PLA to work out and put in place some routine procedures and rules for keeping the inbound, VHF-less, Limehouse ditchcrawlers out of trouble, especially, as you rightly say, whilst the shit tunnel works are going on. With arches 1 and 2 closed at Blackfriars Bridges, inbound vessels following the instructions in the PLA guidance to give outbounds a red throughout the Limehouse - Brentford passage will end up using the main working arches at the Blackfriars Bridges, which is just what I think Mr S-f-B's was probably doing on 10 August last. If only he would produce the " comprehensive account of the whole incident " which he was proposing to do on 12 August, it would help considerably towards a useful dialogue with the PLA on how similar occurences can be avoided in the future.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Sept 3, 2018 7:01:30 GMT
It seems simple enough to me, you should need permission from the PLA before entering their waters (the Thames from Limehouse to Brentford in this case), in which you have signed that you have read and understood their rules, regulations and safety guidance, and that your boat (and yourself) are fit for this trip. ........... ................ ............... No permission required, from navigation/harbour authorities or anyone else, to take a boat anywhere where the tide runs, Ross. Navigation/harbour authorities can impose conditions and controls over the use of tidal waters under their control by means of byelaws, rules and regulations, but they can't prevent or refuse entry onto/into those waters. Canalboats in the form of the modern so-called 'narrowboat' aren't the ideal craft for the lower reaches of the Thames. The real problem, however, is not the boats themselves, but the fact that most of those in charge of them are utterly clueless about what to do when faced with a large commercial vessel which might appear, to them, to be heading straight for them or at least, much too close for comfort.
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Post by duncan on Sept 3, 2018 15:41:04 GMT
Has anyone looked at the documents John has linked to? I am amused to read that 'A bale of straw suspended in the centre of the arch by day or a single white light by night - indicates that this arch has reduced headroom'. Do they actually do that?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 15:55:47 GMT
Yes. There was a bale of straw hanging from one of the bridges I think it was Wandsworth bridge on one of my trips up the thames tideway earlier this year. It was a big tide. It was not there the next time I passed so they do hang them as required.
The thing with a bale of straw is you can hit it and probably not sustain damage to the boat but the impact will be enough to penetrate thick skulls.
Eta when you think about it there are not that many objects which would fulfil that purpose.
Straw absorbs less water than hay.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 16:35:12 GMT
Has anyone looked at the documents John has linked to? I am amused to read that 'A bale of straw suspended in the centre of the arch by day or a single white light by night - indicates that this arch has reduced headroom'. Do they actually do that? Don’t know why they bother with the white light. Why not just set the bale of straw alight at nighttime?
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 7, 2018 17:31:07 GMT
After Mr SfB's revelations on another thread that he was under the impression that Limehouse Lock was operated and controlled by the PLA, I've posted the following both here, where it really belongs, and on the thread in which he has once again attempted to divert attention away from the Thames tideway safety issues which he himself drew attention to back in August, both on this forum and on his own Faecesbook pages :-
In light of your apparent inability to distinguish between the Port of London Authority (PLA) and the Canal & River Trust (C&RT), it may be that you neglected to acquaint yourself with their latest edition (2012) of the Thames Byelaws prior to your collision with one of the Blackfriars bridge piers.
Byelaw 8 is worthy of some attention :-
8. REPORTING ACCIDENTS AND INCIDENTS
8.1 Where any vessel has, whilst in the Thames:
...................................................................
d) been in collision with another vessel, shore facility, the river embankment,
a structure including any part of a bridge or a berthed or moored vessel
or object;
...................................................................
a verbal report must immediately be made by the vessel master, either
directly or through the appropriate VTS Centre, to the harbourmaster
regarding the occurrence. The report must include the name and the
position of the vessel and the nature of the incident, and such further
information, where known, as the harbourmaster may reasonably request.
. . . and so is Byelaw 5 :-
5. OFFENCES
A person who breaches these byelaws is guilty of an offence and is liable, on
conviction before a court of summary jurisdiction, to a fine not exceeding
level 5 on the standard scale. - (Level 5 = up to £5000)
.....................................................................................
I wonder how long it will be before the PLA get hold of your real name, location and postal address from your Faecesbook pages ?
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