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Post by naughtyfox on Jan 17, 2019 8:45:20 GMT
When will the clique of rabid quitting tories on here realise that another referendum is democratic And it would be democratic to vote to see if we wanted another referendum, eh?! And then we should vote to see if we wanted to vote to see if we wanted another referendum. Not to mention voting to see if we wanted to vote on having a vote to see if we wanted another referendum. This is worth reading: Theresa May could have done this: – Invoked Article 50 immediately stating the exit date. – Told the UK and the EU that we’re leaving on WTO rules, that we have 2 years to prepare and for both sides to get on with it. – Immediately sent out a flotilla of business envoys to the USA, China, India, Russia and Brazil (not Africa for fuck’s sake) while COMPLETELY IGNORING the EU unelected filth. Talking to individual European nations leaders excepted but NO ONE in the EU lowerachy! If this had been done immediately there would have been no scope for the likes of Gina Miller shoving their oar in on the “how we leave” bollocks (to procrastinate and obfuscate the process), we know, it’s called WTO, so fuck off! Then after 18 months offer this to the EU: – A free trade deal with the UK. – Reciprocal rights of residence to EU citizens already here, for UK citizens rights over there. And then watch them take our hands off! Instead she crawled and grovelled to the EU like some lap dog as though we’re fucking Estonia or summat! She also own-goaled her own tenure as PM with an election that should have resulted in an untenable majority except she put forward cunt propositions like the “dementia tax” which evaporated her majority thus having to rely on a coalition with the 10 bog trotters (which the EU have now leveraged to their huge advantage by means of the back-stop). She is a weak, abject failure and as for: “May’s exit plan was the best that we could currently hope for.” No, stating our immediate intent to leave on WTO rules would have been the best and then let those EU plonkers sweat it. So the pound takes an initial hit. So the FTSE takes a hit. So what! Nowhere near as bad as in 2008 and it would have recovered long before now, and – when the EU blinked on our gracious offer 18 months later – it would’ve gone through the roof compared to the Euro! So no - she’s been anything but honourable and can fuck off! I only wish she would!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 9:15:35 GMT
Jim,
I voted remain ... but we lost.
The result was in favour of out of the EU.
There can be no second vote unless the first is enacted ... or parliament declares the result of the first 'void'.
You cannot simply keep asking the question until you get the answer you choose.
Whether leaving the EU is good, bad or disastrous ... declaring the result of the first referendum 'void' undermines our parliamentary system for EVER in my view.
Rog
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Post by JohnV on Jan 17, 2019 9:27:43 GMT
Jim, I voted remain ... but we lost. The result was in favour of out of the EU. There can be no second vote unless the first is enacted ... or parliament declares the result of the first 'void'. You cannot simply keep asking the question until you get the answer you choose. Whether leaving the EU is good, bad or disastrous ... declaring the result of the first referendum 'void' undermines our parliamentary system for EVER in my view. Rog excellent post Rog.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jan 17, 2019 9:30:27 GMT
Chap interviewed on Radio 4 yesterday who was neither Leave nor Remain but simply speaking as an analyst said that their research had showed that there had been virtually no change in public opinion since the referendum, and the result of any second referendum was likely to be virtually identical to the first.
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Post by kris on Jan 17, 2019 9:36:06 GMT
Don't be so sure, maybe you and foxy might not do anything other than moan on the Internet, but don't judge everybody else by your own standards. You know nothing about me, or my standards.. Pleaes keep your presumptions to yourself. Well you keep,your pessimistic negative comments to your self then.
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Post by kris on Jan 17, 2019 9:41:03 GMT
It can even be made mandatory this time. You mean you are obliged to turn up at the polling station or be fined? That would make sense. Close to 100% turnout would make it a more interesting and meaningful result obviously. It would make it undemocratic though, well even more undemocratic than a second referendum is anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 9:52:17 GMT
You mean you are obliged to turn up at the polling station or be fined? That would make sense. Close to 100% turnout would make it a more interesting and meaningful result obviously. It would make it undemocratic though, well even more undemocratic than a second referendum is anyway. So you reckon that 37% (52 x 72) of the electorate deciding on such an important topic is Democratic?
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Post by JohnV on Jan 17, 2019 9:57:19 GMT
When will the clique of rabid quitting tories on here realise that another referendum is democratic, as democratic as the last opinion poll.exactly !!! so now we wait 40 years for the next one ....... just like those on the leave side had to last time !!! You have a very distorted view of history !!! and an even more distorted idea of democracy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 10:06:03 GMT
It would make it undemocratic though, well even more undemocratic than a second referendum is anyway. So you reckon that 37% (52 x 72) of the electorate deciding on such an important topic is Democratic? The numbers who bothered to turn up and vote is irrelevant. All were invited, indeed encouraged. The decision not to contribute was theirs. The result remains. That's how our parliamentary democracy works (or should). Rog
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Post by kris on Jan 17, 2019 10:13:58 GMT
It would make it undemocratic though, well even more undemocratic than a second referendum is anyway. So you reckon that 37% (52 x 72) of the electorate deciding on such an important topic is Democratic? Yes, they had the chance to vote in the referendum. If they where that concerned then that's what they would have done.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 10:18:09 GMT
So you reckon that 37% (52 x 72) of the electorate deciding on such an important topic is Democratic? The numbers who bothered to turn up and vote is irrelevant. All were invited, indeed encouraged. The decision not to contribute was theirs. The result remains. That's how our parliamentary democracy works (or should). Rog Poor turn out in itself sends a democratic message that people aren’t interested or have no faith in the options they are expected to vote for. The large turnout for Brexit shows many people do have strong views on the EU.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 10:29:43 GMT
Question. Why is Corbyn (and Labour) saying they won’t take part in talks unless they rule out a no deal exit?
I am guessing that the majority of Labour voters voted out. When they voted there was no mention of this ‘deal’ so they, like everyone else who voted out, voted for an exit without any made up conditions.
For me this idiotic stance from Corbyn has put the final nail in the so called Labour party coffin. It will be interesting to see whether we see the formation of a new party soon or maybe a completely new democratic system which is more robust from....well let’s just say...external agendas.
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Post by Albion on Jan 17, 2019 10:44:42 GMT
Question. Why is Corbyn (and Labour) saying they won’t take part in talks unless they rule out a no deal exit? I am guessing that the majority of Labour voters voted out. When they voted there was no mention of this ‘deal’ so they, like everyone else who voted out, voted for an exit without any made up conditions. For me this idiotic stance from Corbyn has put the final nail in the so called Labour party coffin. It will be interesting to see whether we see the formation of a new party soon or maybe a completely new democratic system which is more robust from....well let’s just say...external agendas. What genuinely puzzles me about Labour's stance is that they want a deal where we remain in the Custom's Union and Single Market (both of which I believe the EU have ruled out if we leave because we can't have those without all the other rules......cake and eat it scenario) and yet Labour are also insisting on ruling out a No Deal Brexit beforehand. How do you negotiate a deal where you have already, publicly, ruled out one of the only two strong cards (the other being the £39 billion) that you have in your hand? Have these politicians no idea about strengths and weaknesses in a negotiation? Roger
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 11:10:10 GMT
So you reckon that 37% (52 x 72) of the electorate deciding on such an important topic is Democratic? Yes, they had the chance to vote in the referendum. If they where that concerned then that's what they would have done. Yes but usually there would be something written in which requires a minimum level of -electorate- percentage in order for it to be valid. Rather than a proportion of turnout. There are some people arguing from a technical point of view (not a remain/leave point of view) that the referendum was fundamentally flawed. An example of the argument is here eu-rope.ideasoneurope.eu/2018/03/23/eu-referendum-flawed/
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 11:16:51 GMT
When will the clique of rabid quitting tories on here realise that another referendum is democratic, as democratic as the last opinion poll. It can even be made mandatory this time. People would be voting on facts, not quitter battle bus lies or Nige's dog whistle shite about all of Romania coming here etc etc. Its necessary because, while Remainers are united as one, quitters are an indecisive rabble, each shouting "mine is the one true way", a risible sight to behold, no leadership. If this rabble want to quit they can vote for it in another democratic referendum. A question not answered yet by any of the pitchfork and noose faction here, it's simple, yes or no: in a democracy are people able to change their minds, especially when they see the facts laid out before them? You don't half come out with some crap. Thick twats like you are causing all the issues with your bleating and baaing. I tended to vote labour in the past, but it's been taken over by spineless drops who shout, yet do fuck all else.
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