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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 9:32:19 GMT
Just looking at the Oxford jab, role out this morning. So only 70% effective, yet 86% show no symptoms without any jab. Maybe I've missed a trick here, but it seems natural immunity is working pretty well on it's own. On hospital admissions, during the first wave before jabs and face masks, hospitals were not overloaded but again the media are telling us again they are. Nightingales empty or mothballed. Something isn't right here. You really should read the full results of the test run that that was based on ....... protection isn't immediate .... it takes time for it to become fully effective. there was a percentage (can't remembr the exact percentage) that fell ill with Covid 19 within that initial period. As they occurred post vaccinations they were included as failures within the official published figures of the trial (as they should be to maintain technical accuracy). As they had obviously been infected before the trial, but near enough to the commencement that the virus was not present in sufficient quantities to show in a test (the cause of Foxy's much harped on and completely misunderstood false negatives) that increases the practical effectiveness percentage considerably.
Well all the vaccines will look successful if most of us have natural immunity by now! I just hope these vaccines don't bugger up any natural immunity. It's not just about science and money, it's also about nature and basic logic.
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Post by ianali on Jan 4, 2021 9:32:40 GMT
Don’t believe that will happen, but I hope it does. I hope it will and believe it will happen, more important though is the world needs to start producing this vaccine fast and using it for a real return to normality, its a very easy to store and use vaccine and its cheap which for poor countries is a plus I am disappointed that the Oxford ‘recipe’ has not been shared with other manufacturers around the globe.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jan 4, 2021 9:35:06 GMT
But if you’ve had the jab, why would you bother to avoid them? I am an extremely unpleasant and nasty person which is why I have no friends. There is evidence of this.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 9:35:29 GMT
And some of the 'everybody hide' folks on here seem to forget that huge swathes of the population have continued working throughout the year, and not just in the NHS . Rog I had taken a break from here, thought it a good idea with Christmas happening. There are some on here that have depressing outlooks about...well everything really. Some would lock us away forever, forgetting those that need to work, or that are needed too work by those hiding away. I lost another good friend a few days ago. People die, I’m afraid it happens now and then. We(I) need to get out and live. Sorry for your loss. There is a further issue ... that people are not getting the medical attention as soon as they should, simply out of over zealous caution regarding the virus. The only danger in the world appears, currently to be the virus. Rog
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Post by patty on Jan 4, 2021 9:36:41 GMT
2021. As I said, by then I think it’s possible that the new infections of vulnerable people will have reduced hospital admissions. Also the deaths will be at acceptable levels. Just looking at the Oxford jab, role out this morning. So only 70% effective, yet 86% show no symptoms without any jab. Maybe I've missed a trick here, but it seems natural immunity is working pretty well on it's own. On hospital admissions, during the first wave before jabs and face masks, hospitals were not overloaded but again the media are telling us again they are. Nightingales empty or mothballed. Something isn't right here. I don't think there are the staff..nor ever have been to manage Nightingale Hospitals... The NHS relied on Agency staff back in my day and on us doing stupidly long hours..I worked 6 nights a week for nearly 2 years without a holiday Agency staff cannot, IMO realistically work one shift in one place then another elsewhere without becoming super spreaders...I just don't see the How its working Son(diver medic) has been contacted again to work in ITU....I don't know whether he will due to the mess up last time. There is always an increased burden on the NHS during winter months ...I guess Covid is compounding this as people need hospitalising for longer and are sicker. I find it difficult to see why the rush to blanket vaccinate without first checking if someone has had virus and has antibodies...though none know how long 'natural gained immunity' lasts. I guess what we need is the finger stab blood test that can be used to check antibodies... Everything done is excessive, but this possibly snowballed into avalanche state by panic and fear. What is important is supporting the NHS...the disgusting way some staff have been heckled by Covid deniers needs to stop. I never saw the Nightingale Hospitals as a real workable solution simply because I know had bad the staffing issue is in an overstretched industry.
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Post by JohnV on Jan 4, 2021 9:37:55 GMT
2021. As I said, by then I think it’s possible that the new infections of vulnerable people will have reduced hospital admissions. Also the deaths will be at acceptable levels. On hospital admissions, during the first wave before jabs and face masks, hospitals were not overloaded but again the media are telling us again they are. Nightingales empty or mothballed. Just to add about this bit of your post. The hospital admissions figures for covid are already above the first peak level in London and the South East. Patients are being transferred from full hospitals out to areas with a lower patient load (and it will be a while before the intensive care requirement peaks). The Nightingale Hospital in London is being brought out of mothball to take non covid patioents.
Hospitals are now coping better with Covid patients than the first surge as there are now certain treatments that are proving to be very helpful in reducing the death toll and more importantly reducing the percentage requiring intensive care.
Don't belittle the preparation of the Nightingales, that they weren't needed was a testament to the work of the NHS during the first surge but even now there still is the possibility they might be ........ it would have been totally unforgivable for any government not to prepare for the worst possible scenario
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Post by patty on Jan 4, 2021 9:39:38 GMT
I had taken a break from here, thought it a good idea with Christmas happening. There are some on here that have depressing outlooks about...well everything really. Some would lock us away forever, forgetting those that need to work, or that are needed too work by those hiding away. I lost another good friend a few days ago. People die, I’m afraid it happens now and then. We(I) need to get out and live. Sorry for your loss. There is a further issue ... that people are not getting the medical attention as soon as they should, simply out of over zealous caution regarding the virus. The only danger in the world appears, currently to be the virus. Rog That concerns me that the world has become so focused on the virus that other illnesses are sidelined .. Getting a GP apt here is just impossible
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Post by ianali on Jan 4, 2021 9:40:30 GMT
Because although you won't get symptoms you will still be able to pass the virus on to someone else. There is no evidence of this. As the virus can be spread from surface to surface, this proves it can be passed on, doesn’t it? Obviously this means even the jabbed can also spread it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 9:42:04 GMT
Just looking at the Oxford jab, role out this morning. So only 70% effective, yet 86% show no symptoms without any jab. Maybe I've missed a trick here, but it seems natural immunity is working pretty well on it's own. On hospital admissions, during the first wave before jabs and face masks, hospitals were not overloaded but again the media are telling us again they are. Nightingales empty or mothballed. Something isn't right here. I don't think there are the staff..nor ever have been to manage Nightingale Hospitals... The NHS relied on Agency staff back in my day and on us doing stupidly long hours..I worked 6 nights a week for nearly 2 years without a holiday Agency staff cannot, IMO realistically work one shift in one place then another elsewhere without becoming super spreaders...I just don't see the How its working Son(diver medic) has been contacted again to work in ITU....I don't know whether he will due to the mess up last time. There is always an increased burden on the NHS during winter months ...I guess Covid is compounding this as people need hospitalising for longer and are sicker. I find it difficult to see why the rush to blanket vaccinate without first checking if someone has had virus and has antibodies...though none know how long 'natural gained immunity' lasts. I guess what we need is the finger stab blood test that can be used to check antibodies... Everything done is excessive, but this possibly snowballed into avalanche state by panic and fear. What is important is supporting the NHS...the disgusting way some staff have been heckled by Covid deniers needs to stop. I never saw the Nightingale Hospitals as a real workable solution simply because I know had bad the staffing issue is in an overstretched industry. I don't disagree with any of that Patty, especially the staffing issues. Maybe we should blame our politicians for not providing enough budget to employ and train more staff over the many years. Anyway, my main fear is that the NHS may become overwhelmed soon due to the damage this has done to millions of healthy people.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 9:43:35 GMT
On hospital admissions, during the first wave before jabs and face masks, hospitals were not overloaded but again the media are telling us again they are. Nightingales empty or mothballed. Just to add about this bit of your post. The hospital admissions figures for covid are already above the first peak level in London and the South East. Patients are being transferred from full hospitals out to areas with a lower patient load (and it will be a while before the intensive care requirement peaks). The Nightingale Hospital in London is being brought out of mothball to take non covid patioents.
Hospitals are now coping better with Covid patients than the first surge as there are now certain treatments that are proving to be very helpful in reducing the death toll and more importantly reducing the percentage requiring intensive care.
Don't belittle the preparation of the Nightingales, that they weren't needed was a testament to the work of the NHS during the first surge but even now there still is the possibility they might be ........ it would have been totally unforgivable for any government not to prepare for the worst possible scenario
I think the Nightingale hospitals were a great idea but as Patty has pointed out, lack of staff was the main problem.
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Post by JohnV on Jan 4, 2021 9:43:46 GMT
I hope it will and believe it will happen, more important though is the world needs to start producing this vaccine fast and using it for a real return to normality, its a very easy to store and use vaccine and its cheap which for poor countries is a plus I am disappointed that the Oxford ‘recipe’ has not been shared with other manufacturers around the globe. pretty good agreement made between Oxford and AstraZenica for a year the vaccine will be marketed at cost for all purchasers, after that undeveloped countries will continue to get it at cost but they will be allowed to make a profit from sales in the developed world.
Not the full deal that Oxford wanted but still a very good compromise
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Post by ianali on Jan 4, 2021 9:43:50 GMT
I am disappointed that the Oxford ‘recipe’ has not been shared with other manufacturers around the globe. It's Lucozade. Ask what's in it and they won't tell you. Oxford University is 40% Chinese students. Working in collaboration with their suppliers of income in Beijing? Then I will refuse the jab. I hate Lucozade.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 9:45:02 GMT
It's Lucozade. Ask what's in it and they won't tell you. Oxford University is 40% Chinese students. Working in collaboration with their suppliers of income in Beijing? Then I will refuse the jab. I hate Lucozade. I'd prefer Lucozade.
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Post by ianali on Jan 4, 2021 9:45:29 GMT
I am disappointed that the Oxford ‘recipe’ has not been shared with other manufacturers around the globe. pretty good agreement made between Oxford and AstraZenica for a year the vaccine will be marketed at cost for all purchasers, after that undeveloped countries will continue to get it at cost but they will be allowed to make a profit from sales in the developed world.
Not the full deal that Oxford wanted but still a very good compromise
Even though this deal will prevent lives being saved!
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Post by JohnV on Jan 4, 2021 9:46:17 GMT
Just looking at the Oxford jab, role out this morning. So only 70% effective, yet 86% show no symptoms without any jab. Maybe I've missed a trick here, but it seems natural immunity is working pretty well on it's own. On hospital admissions, during the first wave before jabs and face masks, hospitals were not overloaded but again the media are telling us again they are. Nightingales empty or mothballed. Something isn't right here. I don't think there are the staff..nor ever have been to manage Nightingale Hospitals... I understand (but only from reading not first hand) that the London Nightingale is mostly being prepared for use staffed by military personell
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