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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 9:14:52 GMT
Well we are steadily approaching the day of the vote for BREXIT or NOT and it seems that none of the Big Guns have really appeared to show their hands in the debate,I was expecting the debate to be more fiery than this or is that still to come. For the working man I don't think that the argument has moved much farther than that old chestnut IMMIGRATION.In other words it is ok the population increasing but where is the additional investment in the infrastructure the working population traditionally use,the schools,social housing and the Health Service? The strain put on these I would say helps create a rascist environment. Me?I am for out as I simply believe the working man will be better off.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 9:31:41 GMT
Well we are steadily approaching the day of the vote for BREXIT or NOT and it seems that none of the Big Guns have really appeared to show their hands in the debate,I was expecting the debate to be more fiery than this or is that still to come. For the working man I don't think that the argument has moved much farther than that old chestnut IMMIGRATION.In other words it is ok the population increasing but where is the additional investment in the infrastructure the working population traditionally use,the schools,social housing and the Health Service? The strain put on these I would say helps create a rascist environment. Me?I am for out as I simply believe the working man will be better off. I suppose it depends whether we see ourselves living in one big happy world in the future or remain ring fenced where we feel comfortable. Obviously with so much of the worlds population being in poverty, we would have to accept that we can't all enjoy the lifestyle we have come to expect if we want that one big happy world. I think world events and global media are gradually forcing us to recognise we live in one world. A world where we will have to find a way of sharing nicely othwrwise we will all be blown off the face of it one way or another. I think the only way to achieve this is to lose the concept of money. To do that we need to educate everyone how greed is a bad thing. We are a long way from that I'm afraid.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 9:35:56 GMT
All my life, I have wanted brexit. I made a living from fishing in Cornwall when younger. What happened to that industry left a bitter taste for many.
Now suddenly it's crunch time, and being totally honest, I've become a "floating voter". I can't make my mind up.
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Post by macwolfelee on Apr 3, 2016 10:28:48 GMT
I have to nail my colours to the mast and say that I am totally for a United States of Europe with full political integration. It should have happened years ago, and petty nationalism is no way to go on in the modern world. My concern is for the fate of Europe and the stability of the world if we leave.
Of course there is a lot wrong with the EU, but there will be a lot more wrong with it if we leave, and it will likely collapse into a confusion of bickering, even warring states on our doorstep. The despot Putin is rubbing his hands over this - it will give him the chance to realise his expansionist plans and stay in power, which a strong and united Europe will certainly thwart.
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Post by Saltysplash on Apr 3, 2016 11:07:05 GMT
Im still a firm outer, nothing to do with migration or immigration as that is something that we have always had. The Paris and Brussels attacks have however shown how flawed the whole Schengen system is when baddies are able to cross borders willy nilly and whatever the referendum result, this is something Europe is seriously going to have to look into.
For me its still the financial burden that being a Euro Club member costs us, and I think as the days go on, what with the Steel industry farce going on and TTIP, many people will change their minds. Who knows, maybe if we do get out we might, just might start another industrial revolution and see a return of real manufacturing to this country. ok i can dream
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Post by Higgs on Apr 3, 2016 11:15:10 GMT
Unity is a good thing, but individuality mustn't be stifled. Most of the arguments are financially focused and following along in its shadow is the idea of self determination through capital growth; a Conservative principle, I believe. The USSR, as it was, tried by force and power to expand its doctrines, it broke down. Russia, now, is trying to create a land corridor between it and the west. The EU is a threat, as seen by the Russian leadership. It is understandable, we can hardly trust our own politicians to speak straight to us. Trust in the leadership is a big consideration to make in deciding the practicality of a somewhat distant institution, like the EU parliament.
Corruption in the idea of unity is what I expect to happen. I don't think the EU is working as an idea of unity on its grand scale. It still seems to be more of a capital venture than a social one. In its original concept, it was organised along the lines of trade. As it has formed into something else, I still thought it was meant to raise the standards for each country's nationals, helping to develop each country's strength. I'd sooner this would happen, before open boarders had been introduced. Open boarders is a good principle, it happened too soon. IMHO.
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Post by john_holden on Apr 3, 2016 12:02:18 GMT
Im still a firm outer, nothing to do with migration or immigration as that is something that we have always had. The Paris and Brussels attacks have however shown how flawed the whole Schengen system is when baddies are able to cross borders willy nilly and whatever the referendum result, this is something Europe is seriously going to have to look into. It's a strange concept where those with no respect for life, not even their own will nevertheless respect borders! Unless you are proposing borders like the Berlin wall.
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Post by Saltysplash on Apr 3, 2016 12:20:47 GMT
Im still a firm outer, nothing to do with migration or immigration as that is something that we have always had. The Paris and Brussels attacks have however shown how flawed the whole Schengen system is when baddies are able to cross borders willy nilly and whatever the referendum result, this is something Europe is seriously going to have to look into. It's a strange concept where those with no respect for life, not even their own will nevertheless respect borders! Unless you are proposing borders like the Berlin wall. That would be silly, Borders,while not stopping incursions makes it a little harder for the perps, Anything which increases the chances of detection has to be considered by the them, thereby making their actions harder to accomplish. Simply allowing free movement is inviting trouble, as has been proved.....infact what I find rediculous about the whole Schengen thing is, The Bad Guys roam around at will, yet as soon as they are caught, the country next door has to apply for extradition! WTF! just put em in the van and drive em to the nearest froggy Nick
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Post by john_holden on Apr 3, 2016 13:00:44 GMT
It's a strange concept where those with no respect for life, not even their own will nevertheless respect borders! Unless you are proposing borders like the Berlin wall. Simply allowing free movement is inviting trouble, as has been proved.....infact what I find rediculous about the whole Schengen thing is, The Bad Guys roam around at will, yet as soon as they are caught, the country next door has to apply for extradition! WTF! just put em in the van and drive em to the nearest froggy Nick We're not a part of Schengen and visitors to our country, even from the EU still need passports. yet still we suffer terrorist attacks. What would we do with all our crims currently resident in Spain?
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Post by Saltysplash on Apr 3, 2016 13:12:05 GMT
We havent suffered terrorist attacks from visitors to our country (not including the IRA) Ours, like Brussels were home grown, It was paris who suffered from Belgium terrorists, you will never stop them, but you can make it harder.
Im not suggesting countries shouldnt still have to apply for extradition, it just seems daft between Schengen States.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 13:45:58 GMT
I can't understand why as an island we can't secure our borders,what about the Australian model? I think that in the end Capitalism requires a pool of Labour any colour or race,which will travel wherever the work is and I worry about the implications of that for our own indigenous working man,who is being beggared in the workplace as pay and conditions are being eroded.It remains the same old power and money in the same old hands and membership of the EU has done nothing to change that. I believe this is the greatest country on earth and I worry when I hear people buy into the idea of we can't survive outside Europe,Europe has done little for the working man
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Post by john_holden on Apr 3, 2016 15:03:09 GMT
"Europe has done little for the working man"
Oh agreed, apart from the minimum wage, the working time directive, holiday entitlement, maternity leave and H&S to name a few.
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Post by zigspider on Apr 3, 2016 15:15:19 GMT
"Europe has done little for the working man" Oh agreed, apart from the minimum wage, the working time directive, holiday entitlement, maternity leave and H&S to name a few. But is that totally EU legislation, or is some home grown ? I must admit, having not been in the UK for the last 12 years, I'm not looking forward to seeing what the country has become when we return from a failed Canadian experience at the end of the year.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 15:35:26 GMT
"Europe has done little for the working man" Oh agreed, apart from the minimum wage, the working time directive, holiday entitlement, maternity leave and H&S to name a few. Not all of your list came from the EU,what price the working time directive now John when we can't support our Steel Industry while Germany can and does.A policy of Vertical Integration I believe they call it in Germany.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 15:43:00 GMT
All my life, I have wanted brexit. I made a living from fishing in Cornwall when younger. What happened to that industry left a bitter taste for many. Now suddenly it's crunch time, and being totally honest, I've become a "floating voter". I can't make my mind up. Surprised to hear that your undecided,Cornwall was decimated both Fishing and Mining of Tin, what gives you pause for thought?
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