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Post by smileypete on Nov 19, 2016 13:34:38 GMT
I suppose the rationale for allowing non room sealed water heaters is that they only run intermittently, max 10 mins when having a shower, generally a couple of minutes when washing up etc. So there's no time for a dangerous build up of co. They shouldn't release any CO inside if installed and used correctly. Probably the only rationale for banning them is that maybe some box-tickers 'feel' they're unsafe without actually looking at the evidence. Statements like: There is a growing recognition of the risks associated with the use of non room-sealed gas appliances when used in confined spaces such as boats. These risks include poisoning and suffocation to individuals on board from improperly flued and ventilated appliances.make me think, OK, what about some stats on accidents then? A quick look on Mr Google seems to suggest that portable generators cause many CO incidents, and the use of these would go up if the cost of gas water heating became uneconomically high. Doubt the box-tickers thought of that, ha! And why don't they require CO alarms for BSS now that boat/caravan approved ones are available? Are they putting their (irrational?) fear of lawyers before the safety of boater. Anyway, rant over.... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 13:44:11 GMT
Thanks for that smpt  I did imply that a used paloma heater retrofitted in a boat would be a BSS fail but it looks like it isn't. that's good news all round because in some situations instantaneous gas water heaters are a very good option on boats. It does take ages to fill the bath in the winter though !! (I think mine is a D61 Morco but can't find the model number). Also important to point out that you don't want a paloma in the same water delivery line as an engine heated calorifier. Instant water heaters raise the water BY x degrees whereas a calorifier will raise it TO x degrees. So of your engine had warmed the water to 40 degrees and the Paloma is fed this water it could raise it by 30 degrees and you get 70 degrees C water out. Oh dear ! I had a boat which had been fitted with this arrangement once and yes it can cause extremely hot water to come out of the taps !!! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 13:45:31 GMT
And anyway BS does not in fact stand for Boat Safety  |
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Post by faffer on Nov 19, 2016 14:08:37 GMT
The boiler is already fitted, checked with manometer, as well as having bubble tester fitted. Yes I'm competent, years of plumbing, tho not domestic gas, obviously. Fitted out my last boat too, similar system, hob, oven and paloma. All with flame failure. All with shut off taps. But my question wasn't answered, it was implied that the paloma would fail Bss, just because it's an older paloma. That is my only concern, the fit out is fine, though I do understand your concerns. Ah, OK then, Mr Google comes up with the following: www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/non-private-boats/part-8-appliances,-flueing-ventilation/ There is a growing recognition of the risks associated with the use of non room-sealed gas appliances when used in confined spaces such as boats. These risks include poisoning and suffocation to individuals on board from improperly flued and ventilated appliances. So new LPG appliances must be room sealed, except where room-sealing is not physically possible, i.e. cooking appliances.
There is one specific exception to this rule and this is for LPG instantaneous water heaters. Based on the good previous safety record of these particular appliances, and until such a time as a room-sealed direct replacement becomes easily available, British Waterways and the Environment Agency accept the continued installation of instantaneous water heaters on private boats. If you are changing your non-room sealed instantaneous water heater it's strongly recommended that you consider room sealed alternatives.So looks like it's OK, I'd also have at least a couple of decent CO alarms on board one with a digital readout. So is that yet the BW and EA dont think that the room sealed water heaters are not readily available yet? I know there isnt nay to choose from but you can easy get them. Still unsure if to go the room sealed way with a F11, near twice the price as the others but lot safer. Not just that i need a side flue though. |
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Post by faffer on Nov 19, 2016 14:11:16 GMT
Just been on line looking and it has now been replaced by the Malaga 5 The Malaga stores about 13 litres of very hot water which after mixing to a non scalding temperature is plenty for a shower, It heats up again quite quickly but even before it heats up the tank full it supplies a small flow of very hot water directly. I have found it miserly on it's gas and electric consumption (12v) I put it on soon as I get onboard and it stays on 24/7 while I am there. Mine is installed in a room sealed cabinet venting directly through the cabin side. www.jacksonsleisure.com/caravan-and-camping/heating/water-heaters/propex-malaga-5e-electric-lpg-gas-water-storage-heater-updated-4e/Going to have a read now kida, like the price |
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Post by faffer on Nov 19, 2016 18:14:42 GMT
Just been on line looking and it has now been replaced by the Malaga 5 The Malaga stores about 13 litres of very hot water which after mixing to a non scalding temperature is plenty for a shower, It heats up again quite quickly but even before it heats up the tank full it supplies a small flow of very hot water directly. I have found it miserly on it's gas and electric consumption (12v) I put it on soon as I get onboard and it stays on 24/7 while I am there. Mine is installed in a room sealed cabinet venting directly through the cabin side. www.jacksonsleisure.com/caravan-and-camping/heating/water-heaters/propex-malaga-5e-electric-lpg-gas-water-storage-heater-updated-4e/So with this heater i still fit the pump before the heater to keep the tank pressurized, the pump i have is max 1.4 bar but the Malaga has a max input of 1.3 bar, will .1 bar over be dangerous ? I plan to fit it between the porthole and side window in a cupboard that will be about 350mm wide, but as these need access all around for mainteance i will need to make another door/sealed hatch in the heads access to the othe side, just cant see the vent specs to se eif it safe to fit it between the windows, i know that vents do need to a certain distance from openings. I will keep searching, the spec sheet and instructions on fitting them.  |
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Post by smileypete on Nov 19, 2016 18:35:09 GMT
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Post by faffer on Nov 19, 2016 18:49:52 GMT
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Post by smileypete on Nov 19, 2016 18:57:58 GMT
That almost looks like a printing error, might even be meant to say minimum pressure. Why not phone them up on Monday and ask for their tech support. It's odd, their tech info on the web page just says Pressure Relief Valve Settings 3 bar
Maximum Working Pressure 2 bar
Maximum Working Supply Pressure 1.9 barwww.propexheatsource.co.uk/heaters/malaga-water-heater#tech1.3 Bar max pressure would be uselessly low... |
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Post by faffer on Nov 19, 2016 19:34:09 GMT
That almost looks like a printing error, might even be meant to say minimum pressure. Why not phone them up on Monday and ask for their tech support. It's odd, their tech info on the web page just says Pressure Relief Valve Settings 3 bar
Maximum Working Pressure 2 bar
Maximum Working Supply Pressure 1.9 barwww.propexheatsource.co.uk/heaters/malaga-water-heater#tech1.3 Bar max pressure would be uselessly low... I agre it does seem low but when it is the Propex spec sheet form Propex you would of thought that was correct . I will check it out just seen this in the specs Note: If connecting to mains water supply, a suitable water pressure regulator must be connected to ensure that the maximum supply of water pressure does not exceed 190kPa (1.9bar) then it says ALSO do not connect this appliance to a mains water supply. One other thing, i think vent will be a bit to close to the window openings, i am sure i read earlier that it needs 600mm adjacent to the vent. if so it is to much but the Morco F11 is ok as it is only 300mm. |
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Post by bargemast on Nov 19, 2016 19:37:51 GMT
Thanks for that smpt I did imply that a used paloma heater retrofitted in a boat would be a BSS fail but it looks like it isn't. that's good news all round because in some situations instantaneous gas water heaters are a very good option on boats. It does take ages to fill the bath in the winter though !! (I think mine is a D61 Morco but can't find the model number). Also important to point out that you don't want a paloma in the same water delivery line as an engine heated calorifier. Instant water heaters raise the water BY x degrees whereas a calorifier will raise it TO x degrees. So of your engine had warmed the water to 40 degrees and the Paloma is fed this water it could raise it by 30 degrees and you get 70 degrees C water out. Oh dear ! I had a boat which had been fitted with this arrangement once and yes it can cause extremely hot water to come out of the taps !!!
With thermostaticly controled taps you won't have that problem, you can find them pretty cheap, sometimes on special offers at Aldi or Lidl.
Peter.
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I did imply that a used paloma heater retrofitted in a boat would be a BSS fail but it looks like it isn't. 
