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Post by Telemachus on Jan 29, 2017 23:25:41 GMT
No, it's very targeted only against CCers who refuse to comply with the rules they signed up to and just want to plonk their boat in one place, in company with their mates, for cheap housing. CCers who actually CC don't have a problem. i would liken it to gypsies. On the one hand one can see that they enjoy their "alternative lifestyle", but equally there are met with pretty much universal dislike when they plonk their vans down in a public space. It is about the impact on others - an "alternative lifestyle" is all very fine provided it doesn't impinge on others. But clogging up the western end of the KandA which is a national resource, does impinge on others exactly the same as a band of gypsies setting up in a public park does. I wish I could agree with you, but unfortunately, I often get txts from ccers who are being put through hoops and hurdles when they have done absolutely nothing wrong. CRT have a serious issue that involves the simple task of saying, "sorry, we were wrong", and instead attempt to prove the boater is at fault for some reason or other. The other load of bollocks is this, they spend seven months of the year stating it is illegal to stay in one place for 14 days, yet then spend five months saying it doesn't matter if you give us money. Now you are welcome to come up with whatever drivel you feel fit to excuse that particular phenomenon nick, but at the end of the day, it's all bollocks from a pathetic management team that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Blimey I have to rewind the argument 2 days! That's hard in this fast moving scintillating topic! Anyway, I have said several times and thus totally agree with you that the robustness CRT's logging system, and therefore their inappropriate interventions with innocent boaters, is sorely lacking and needs major improvement. I've no idea whether your point about a dislike of saying sorry is ubiquitous or scattered. But then we all sometimes struggle to admit we are wrong in the heat of the moment! As to your second para, no I don't think it is bollocks. We need to have a 14 day rule for CCers, in part because that's what the law says, but also because otherwise hot spots in desirable areas would get clogged up with permanent moorers, and if I wanted a little slice of the hotspot for one day a year, I'd be denied it by the cut hogs. Not fair! Now you could argue that the winter mooring thing is invalid and shouldn't be allowed. I'd find it hard to argue against the theory of that position, but from a pragmatic and practical point of view it seems a good idea. During the winter there is much less pressure on visitor moorings and if some are taken up by CCers then it doesn't really affect anyone adversely. Winter moorings suits some CCers so I'd be careful what you wish for if you are going to challenge the legality of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 23:37:46 GMT
I wish I could agree with you, but unfortunately, I often get txts from ccers who are being put through hoops and hurdles when they have done absolutely nothing wrong. CRT have a serious issue that involves the simple task of saying, "sorry, we were wrong", and instead attempt to prove the boater is at fault for some reason or other. The other load of bollocks is this, they spend seven months of the year stating it is illegal to stay in one place for 14 days, yet then spend five months saying it doesn't matter if you give us money. Now you are welcome to come up with whatever drivel you feel fit to excuse that particular phenomenon nick, but at the end of the day, it's all bollocks from a pathetic management team that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. We need to have a 14 day rule for CCers, in part because that's what the law says I can't see where anyone has disputed that, so why have you brought it up as a prop to your argument?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 23:40:30 GMT
I wish I could agree with you, but unfortunately, I often get txts from ccers who are being put through hoops and hurdles when they have done absolutely nothing wrong. CRT have a serious issue that involves the simple task of saying, "sorry, we were wrong", and instead attempt to prove the boater is at fault for some reason or other. The other load of bollocks is this, they spend seven months of the year stating it is illegal to stay in one place for 14 days, yet then spend five months saying it doesn't matter if you give us money. Now you are welcome to come up with whatever drivel you feel fit to excuse that particular phenomenon nick, but at the end of the day, it's all bollocks from a pathetic management team that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Blimey I have to rewind the argument 2 days! That's hard in this fast moving scintillating topic! Anyway, I have said several times and thus totally agree with you that the robustness CRT's logging system, and therefore their inappropriate interventions with innocent boaters, is sorely lacking and needs major improvement. I've no idea whether your point about a dislike of saying sorry is ubiquitous or scattered. But then we all sometimes struggle to admit we are wrong in the heat of the moment! As to your second para, no I don't think it is bollocks. We need to have a 14 day rule for CCers, in part because that's what the law says, but also because otherwise hot spots in desirable areas would get clogged up with permanent moorers, and if I wanted a little slice of the hotspot for one day a year, I'd be denied it by the cut hogs. Not fair! Now you could argue that the winter mooring thing is invalid and shouldn't be allowed. I'd find it hard to argue against the theory of that position, but from a pragmatic and practical point of view it seems a good idea. During the winter there is much less pressure on visitor moorings and if some are taken up by CCers then it doesn't really affect anyone adversely. Winter moorings suits some CCers so I'd be careful what you wish for if you are going to challenge the legality of it. No. Winter mooring is as pathetic as I pointed out. 7 months stating it's illegal, then 5 months saying it's not if you pay us. Utterly ridiculous. If the winter months make cruising difficult, or for that matter dangerous, it just needs a sensible approach of relaxing the pressure to do so. The fact is quite clear as many have pointed out, a lot of this issue is down to lack of housing. CRT should be lobbying the government and councils to deal with this. Its a massive issue, getting bigger by the day, CRT needs to address the root of the problem. As it stands now, crt are fighting a battle they are destined to lose, because people will cut the cloth to their means and deal with the issues crt throw at them. If you believe this is all about the 14 day rule, you are completely distanced from the actual facts. Though I can understand that, given its the only shit crt feed you.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 29, 2017 23:45:22 GMT
We need to have a 14 day rule for CCers, in part because that's what the law says I can't see where anyone has disputed that, so why have you brought it up as a prop to your argument? Jenlyn said "the other load of bollocks is ... stating it is illegal to spend more than 14days in one place...". I appreciate that he wasn't really saying that the 14 days thing is a load of bollocks but he did bring it up, and in order to produce a rounded response I thought it appropriate to cover that base too. So it wasn't really a prop to my argument, I was merely ensuring that something didn't slip by that shouldn't. The main thrust of the point from both of us was not about legality of the 14 days, but about the possibly arbitrary relaxing of that statute in winter.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 29, 2017 23:54:35 GMT
Blimey I have to rewind the argument 2 days! That's hard in this fast moving scintillating topic! Anyway, I have said several times and thus totally agree with you that the robustness CRT's logging system, and therefore their inappropriate interventions with innocent boaters, is sorely lacking and needs major improvement. I've no idea whether your point about a dislike of saying sorry is ubiquitous or scattered. But then we all sometimes struggle to admit we are wrong in the heat of the moment! As to your second para, no I don't think it is bollocks. We need to have a 14 day rule for CCers, in part because that's what the law says, but also because otherwise hot spots in desirable areas would get clogged up with permanent moorers, and if I wanted a little slice of the hotspot for one day a year, I'd be denied it by the cut hogs. Not fair! Now you could argue that the winter mooring thing is invalid and shouldn't be allowed. I'd find it hard to argue against the theory of that position, but from a pragmatic and practical point of view it seems a good idea. During the winter there is much less pressure on visitor moorings and if some are taken up by CCers then it doesn't really affect anyone adversely. Winter moorings suits some CCers so I'd be careful what you wish for if you are going to challenge the legality of it. No. Winter mooring is as pathetic as I pointed out. 7 months stating it's illegal, then 5 months saying it's not if you pay us. Utterly ridiculous. If the winter months make cruising difficult, or for that matter dangerous, it just needs a sensible approach of relaxing the pressure to do so. So if you object to the relaxation (at a price) for 5 months then why not campaign against it? Same rules/law 365 days a year. But I can't help feeling that a lot of boaters would resent you for it, just as they resented whoever blocked the roving mooring permit thing. As I said, the legality is questionable, but with the pressure off the waterways due to leisure boaters being in their burrows over the winter, it seems pragmatic to relax the restrictions. The winter months, by and large, don't make cruising difficult or dangerous. Of course there can be cold snaps / bit of frost in the morning / bit of ice on the cut but most years, for most of the time, this isn't the case. We managed to go boating in early December, over Christmas, and last weekend without it being either difficult or dangerous and that is mid winter time. The last bad winter was 2011.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 0:01:10 GMT
I can't see where anyone has disputed that, so why have you brought it up as a prop to your argument? Jenlyn said "the other load of bollocks is ... stating it is illegal to spend more than 14days in one place...". I appreciate that he wasn't really saying that the 14 days thing is a load of bollocks but he did bring it up, and in order to produce a rounded response I thought it appropriate to cover that base too. So it wasn't really a prop to my argument, I was merely ensuring that something didn't slip by that shouldn't. The main thrust of the point from both of us was not about legality of the 14 days, but about the possibly arbitrary relaxing of that statute in winter. Ah Ok. Well anyway, that argument could also be extended to all moorings on the tow path side where CRT are taking revenue for allowing boats to be moored longer than 14 days. (e.g. all short/long term moorings) As I've said before, it's a can of worms just waiting for some disgruntled boater to open up. Personally I think so long as boaters and CRT are happy to continue with the 'arrangement' maybe best leave alone. Anyway, someone has got to help fund the management.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 0:03:48 GMT
No. Winter mooring is as pathetic as I pointed out. 7 months stating it's illegal, then 5 months saying it's not if you pay us. Utterly ridiculous. If the winter months make cruising difficult, or for that matter dangerous, it just needs a sensible approach of relaxing the pressure to do so. So if you object to the relaxation (at a price) for 5 months then why not campaign against it? Same rules/law 365 days a year. But I can't help feeling that a lot of boaters would resent you for it, just as they resented whoever blocked the roving mooring permit thing. As I said, the legality is questionable, but with the pressure off the waterways due to leisure boaters being in their burrows over the winter, it seems pragmatic to relax the restrictions. The winter months, by and large, don't make cruising difficult or dangerous. Of course there can be cold snaps / bit of frost in the morning / bit of ice on the cut but most years, for most of the time, this isn't the case. We managed to go boating in early December, over Christmas, and last weekend without it being either difficult or dangerous and that is mid winter time. The last bad winter was 2011. You often make the same mistake as crt nick. You don't understand ccing, simply because it's outside of your box. That's OK in a way, and i have no intention of suggesting you should not have an opinion, but it's annoying when you make comments on issues that you have no grasp of. I make a point of not suggesting how leisure boat owners should cruise, you and several others should consider doing the same where ccers are concerned.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 0:08:54 GMT
No. Winter mooring is as pathetic as I pointed out. 7 months stating it's illegal, then 5 months saying it's not if you pay us. Utterly ridiculous. If the winter months make cruising difficult, or for that matter dangerous, it just needs a sensible approach of relaxing the pressure to do so. So if you object to the relaxation (at a price) for 5 months then why not campaign against it? Same rules/law 365 days a year. But I can't help feeling that a lot of boaters would resent you for it, just as they resented whoever blocked the roving mooring permit thing. I did not say I objected. I raised the fact of the stupidity and ignorance crt portray by doing it.
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Post by Saltysplash on Jan 30, 2017 0:11:58 GMT
Is it all over? did I miss anything? Id just like to say I like children, some people can't bare them, I cant, but I like them.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 30, 2017 0:15:55 GMT
Is it all over? did I miss anything? Id just like to say I like children, some people can't bare them, I cant, but I like them. I like children too. Although once they are too big to fit in the microwave, I don't see the point of them and anyway I couldn't eat a whole one.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 7:22:34 GMT
Isn't that from an advert for a Rottweiler in Friday-Ad? Loves children but couldn't eat a whole one.
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Post by kris on Jan 30, 2017 9:17:15 GMT
Isn't that from an advert for a Rottweiler in Friday-Ad? Loves children but couldn't eat a whole one. its Nick trying to be argumentitive again.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 9:26:30 GMT
Isn't that from an advert for a Rottweiler in Friday-Ad? Loves children but couldn't eat a whole one. its a twist on WC Fields. (When asked how he liked children) The actual quote, from a film - The actress asks him, "Do you like children?" and Fields responds, "I do if they're properly cooked." (from Tillie and Gus ) he had this to say on the matter too:- In another film, he says, "I'm very fond of children - girl children, around [age] 18 or 20." (from The Bank Dick )
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Post by patty on Jan 30, 2017 9:39:24 GMT
I'm out of here. Well done Iconoclast, you won. Andy, this isn't real life mate, not like Eastenders! Just chill and see if Patty will give you a chocolate Rog OOps Ive had the most wonderful box chocolates....sigh.....hmmmmm Ah well..all gone now... next time...maybe...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 16:24:20 GMT
So this morning, I received this "Dear Mr. To make sure everyone has a fair chance of mooring on our canals and rivers it’s important that boaters respect the movement requirements and cruise to a new place at least once a fortnight. We’ve been looking at our sighting records and they suggest that your boat JENLYN 518036 has been moored in the same general area for more than 14 days. If this is not the case, or you have any questions, please give me a call on 01908 681277 so you can have a chat to us about your circumstances. Remember to quote your boat index number and to tell us where you’re currently moored. If you have been moored up for longer than 14 days, please continue your journey to avoid action for overstaying. You can find out more about mooring rules, licensing and the enforcement process, as well as information covering everything else about boating on our waters, on our website: www.canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating. For advice on winter boating please visit: canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/navigating-the-waterways/boat-handling/winter-cruising and also canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/navigating-the-waterways/boat-handling/avoiding-accidents Best wishes Boating Co-ordinator South East Canal & River Trust Tel: 01908 681277" I felt the urge to reply, and added pictures I had taken each day. What really got my goat, was the fact that when I rang them this morning, I was informed that their "boys" had noted the ice had melted on Friday. This in fact was indeed the case, as I had first thing in the morning started the engine, put it in reverse and flooded the ice. However, the pounds below and above me were solid, and impossible to navigate. Seems the "boys" were either blind, or not really taking a great deal of notice to the conditions. "Hi These pictures were taken between the 23rd of january and 28th at Rickmansworth whilst we were moored there. We recorded each days conditions in our boat log. Although Friday saw a thaw in the ice directly outside of tesco (where we were moored), I did check the pounds above batchworth, and below Stockers. Both were frozen solid and therefore made it impossible to move. (I might at this point add that if the pounds affected were dredged, the ice would not have been such a problem for them.) Just to provide some clarity with regards boating in ice, I shall point out that cruising through it is not totally impossible, although doing so is likely to seriously aggravate those who are moored, and likely to cause damage to both theirs, and my own hull. Not only that, us attempting to moor to the bank with thick ice becomes extremely difficult, if not impossible, therefore a lot of thought and planning is necessary in such conditions when owning and cruising a boat, and to be fair, it's my responsibility to ensure that I do not create a hazard and cause uneccesary issues for others under such conditions. This is all covered of course by CRT'S own guidance set out on its website. Frankly, I am somewhat astonished at the flippant info your "boys" gave you with regards the conditions at that time. I feel that if you intend to collect such data, and use it to "remind" people they need to move, then you most certainly need to ensure that collated data is correct. I would be grateful if you could reply to this mail, informing me that this overstay period was justified, and therefore will be marked up as such on my sightings records. Many thanks and kind regards Steve j."
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